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  #1  
Old 22/10/2009, 01:07 AM
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Default Type My Dad !



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  #2  
Old 22/10/2009, 06:38 AM
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My guess is ISFp.
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Would you like you for a child?
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Old 22/10/2009, 11:18 AM
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ISFp imo as well. Your dad is funny, he reminds me of the father of one friend (we called him "pot-belly") who we didn't like, this is over 10 years ago, because we were gathering together to play multi-player games but had to wait hour for him to finish his lonely adventures at the computer.

ISFp's usually don't want children, but once they have they love them, I'd ask him about that if I was you.
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Old 22/10/2009, 10:45 PM
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ISFp imo as well. Your dad is funny, he reminds me of the father of one friend (we called him "pot-belly") who we didn't like, this is over 10 years ago, because we were gathering together to play multi-player games but had to wait hour for him to finish his lonely adventures at the computer.

ISFp's usually don't want children, but once they have they love them, I'd ask him about that if I was you.
Yes my dad is a funny one! But this was him trying to be serious .
I liked your little story of ISFp father that you knew not stopping what he was doing on computer until he had finished his game. My dad is just like that. He is only now learning to stop what he is doing for others when needed.
Will ask him about wanting children when he is home later.
Some things don't add up for him being an Introvert though. Like he drives a big car and I have read that Introverts like smaller cars and Extroverts bigger ones. And he is the boss of many people. He loves to lead things. He can give speeches in front of a couple of hundred people or so without much stress. He always likes to have someone with him wherever he goes or whatever he does. He likes to be the centre of attention, but I guess that is of smaller groups of say 4-10 people.
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Old 23/10/2009, 12:26 AM
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Yeah ISFp is a possibility.
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Old 23/10/2009, 05:08 AM
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I liked your little story of ISFp father that you knew not stopping what he was doing on computer until he had finished his game. My dad is just like that. He is only now learning to stop what he is doing for others when needed.
I'm more sure your father is similar to "pot-belly" than they are ISFp, but this seems the closest.
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And he is the boss of many people. He loves to lead things. He can give speeches in front of a couple of hundred people or so without much stress. He always likes to have someone with him wherever he goes or whatever he does. He likes to be the centre of attention, but I guess that is of smaller groups of say 4-10 people.
This is pretty strange for SEI but I suppose it is not relevant enough? I don't know personally ISFp's being so demanding, although I can confirm that they like to take people with them when doing different things. I had an ISFp boss who took me with her to shopping and confectionery and whatever, although she was not caring about being the center of attention or what people say about her (we - the guys at the workplace - were not so disciplined and were mocking her "wisdom", lol).
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Old 23/10/2009, 08:26 AM
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That your father is an irrational type with ethics in the ego block is hardly possible to doubt, since that strikes out both in his behaviour, overall appearance, and in what he says about himself as a person. He exhibits some rather clear signs of extraversion in his behaviour in that video, and a "competitive" and "ambitious" (3.18 in the video) ISFp is almost a contradiction in terms. Backed up with the information you have added about his behaviour in groups and his willingness to lead others we have reason to say that his extraversion is getting closer to become a confirmed fact. At least we can say that he really can't be an ISFp. That leaves us with two types to seriously consider: ESFp and ENFp.

At first I thought that his V.I. look suggested intuition, but his overall appearance based on how he talks and how he behaves in that video does not strike me as typically ENFp. Also, the things he talks about and how he relates to them would rather suggest some sensory type, at least as a distinct possibility. So, I'm not sure about the S/N dimension here. When I took a closer look at his V.I. look, I can't really say that N suggests itself more clearly than S, so ESFp becomes a possiblity at least as likely, or even more likely, as ENFp.

The only serious alternative to ESFp or ENFp would probably be INFp, which is a more likely possibility than ISFp, but then we have to explain his signs of extraversion in some other way that makes more sense, which is not very likely to happen.
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Old 23/10/2009, 06:27 PM
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Originally Posted by cafeclutz View Post
Some things don't add up for him being an Introvert though. Like he drives a big car and I have read that Introverts like smaller cars and Extroverts bigger ones. And he is the boss of many people. He loves to lead things. He can give speeches in front of a couple of hundred people or so without much stress. He always likes to have someone with him wherever he goes or whatever he does. He likes to be the centre of attention, but I guess that is of smaller groups of say 4-10 people.
The car thing really has nothing to do with type, but the others point to extroversion. There are extroverted intratim types, but they are rare. Being the boss and liking to lead are stereotypically Se-valuing, but that's just speculation derived from two sentences, so I wouldn't bank on the Se thing.
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An' I says, "Stan, you prolly right."
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  #9  
Old 24/10/2009, 08:58 AM
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ISFp's usually don't want children, but once they have they love them, I'd ask him about that if I was you.

So I asked my dad and he says that he always wanted children.



Direct link: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H6GI79yDBFI

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Uploaded another video of Dad.

Last edited by cafeclutz; 24/10/2009 at 08:58 AM. Reason: Automerged Doublepost
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  #10  
Old 24/10/2009, 12:29 PM
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The case for ESFp has become stronger. Your dad's reasons for thinking that he might be J rather than P are hidden in the shadows; I can see no obvious reason for believing that, except for the fact that he is most sure of being F. On the other hand, if he happens to be an early bird by natural born temperament (and not by necessity due to external factors) I might have to reconsider my typing of him. Since I get no clear ISFp vibes from him but can see him as a possible ESFp, and the arguments against ISFp are pretty strong (though perhaps not totally conclusive), I can't take the ISFp typing seriously at the moment.

If he happens to be a natural born night owl, that additional fact will make me almost totally convinced that he is actually an ESFp. So, what is your naturally preferred day and night cycle like, sir?
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  #11  
Old 25/10/2009, 01:01 AM
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If he happens to be a natural born night owl, that additional fact will make me almost totally convinced that he is actually an ESFp. So, what is your naturally preferred day and night cycle like, sir?

He says that he loves to sleep in and get to bed at the latest midnight. However when I was young I remember he always wanted to stay up late and watch movies. He generally gets up about 10:30am - 11:30am on the weekends and goes to bed around 10:30pm -11:00pm unless we are having a movie or computer night or friends over then it can be later. Maybe it is worth noting that I have a mother who likes to get up earlier than him on the weekends and go to bed earlier so between them they have sort of worked out a compromise.
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Old 25/10/2009, 11:08 AM
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He says that he loves to sleep in and get to bed at the latest midnight. However when I was young I remember he always wanted to stay up late and watch movies. He generally gets up about 10:30am - 11:30am on the weekends and goes to bed around 10:30pm -11:00pm unless we are having a movie or computer night or friends over then it can be later. Maybe it is worth noting that I have a mother who likes to get up earlier than him on the weekends and go to bed earlier so between them they have sort of worked out a compromise.
That I interpret as indicating nightowlness. He seems to need more sleep than the average person, but if you tend to get up at 10.30-11.30 you are hardly an early bird. So far I have never met an ESFj or ENFj that has not been an early bird, and every ESFp and every ENFp that I have ever met has been a night owl. There might be some exceptions to this general pattern (which can be seen in all the types in the socion), but the neuroscientists have found that there is a correlation between being an early bird and having typical J traits in your personality and that there is a similar correlation between typical P traits and being a night owl. I believe that this correlation is very strong, much stronger than probably any other socionist on this forum want to accept.

So, most of the evidence presented so far suggests that your father is an ESFp.
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Old 25/10/2009, 03:01 PM
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So, most of the evidence presented so far suggests that your father is an ESFp.
I consider ESFj as well, although I agree with you that it's hard to find ESFj going to bed late, at their own initiative - I don't know any, except those who followed the partners' rhythm for some periods.

ESFp no way, you missed one thing to explain: . If he's Irrational or Ethical it doesn't mean he's ESFp because you say so.
He is , he cries at movies, ESFp males don't do that, wtf is wrong with you? Rarely males do that, and they are , thing you should have already known. males are pretty dumb concerning the misery of people who are not theirs, especially SEE and ESI!

Revise your conclusions, else I'll have to struggle against you.
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Old 25/10/2009, 03:13 PM
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I consider ESFj as well, although I agree with you that it's hard to find ESFj going to bed late, at their own initiative - I don't know any, except those who followed the partners' rhythm for some periods.
A "competitive" and "ambitious" (3.18 in the video) ESFj is perhaps not a complete contradiction in terms, but it is a strong argument against ESFj as well.

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Originally Posted by mihai_m
ESFp no way, you missed one thing to explain: . If he's Irrational or Ethical it doesn't mean he's ESFp because you say so.
I have never claimed that he is an ESFp because I say so, nor have I ever thought so. He seems to be ESFp though, one reason being that he does not seem to be ESFj, and the other options are not more likely. ESFp is the best fit based on the evidence so far.

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Originally Posted by mihai_m
He is , he cries at movies, ESFp males don't do that, wtf is wrong with you?
Apparently you have a somewhat incorrect view on ESFps.

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Originally Posted by mihai_m
Rarely males do that, and they are , thing you should have already known.
That conclusion is false and it is also based on a false premise.

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Originally Posted by mihai_m
Revise your conclusions, else I'll have to struggle against you.
You can always try to struggle against me, but you will probably not win. I am clearly better at typing than you are.
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  #15  
Old 26/10/2009, 12:15 AM
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More info on my dad -

He has never been very interested in psychology. He hates being put in a box. He is quite excited by the fact that we find him difficult to type at home and also here now on this forum.

He has typed in tests we at home have asked him to do and work tests as Myers Briggs INFP, ENFP, ENFJ, ENTP, ENTJ, ESFJ, ESFP, ISFP. And in Socionics tests he has come out as ENFp, INFp, INFj, ENFj, ESFp, ISFp, ESFj, ESTj, ENTj,
ESTp.

He hates movies full of swearing or killing. He prefers Science Fiction and clean comedies. He loves the movie Elf starring Will Ferrall.

He likes Nicole Ritchie and J.Lo.

Loves to have holidays and travel.

He hates conflict. Hates to see a family member cry. Likes to be the good parent.

He loves to be liked by everyone.

He is very tidy.

When up in front of people he has a habit of swinging his feet in front of each other and moving side to side. He has learnt to work on this.

He has an internal job check list that he ticks off as things are accomplished. Sometimes he makes you feel that you are a job on job check list.

On the weekend he likes the family to do things together and is a little bit upset if one of us goes off to the bedroom etc to do our own thing.

He can be hard to get into a deep conversation with because it's like he has a silly switch and once it's turned on (and it is turned on very easily) then it is hard to turn off.

He is fantastic at improvisation.

He uses other peoples information to help him appear smarter than he is.

He loves to socialize over food.

He does things in his own time but expects people to do what he asks immediately.

He is fantastic at delegating.

He reminds us of Homer Simpson and has the nickname among some of his old work colleagues as Garfield.

He is not very good at keeping in contact with people from his past.

Quote:
Originally Posted by cafeclutz View Post
He says that he loves to sleep in and get to bed at the latest midnight. However when I was young I remember he always wanted to stay up late and watch movies. He generally gets up about 10:30am - 11:30am on the weekends and goes to bed around 10:30pm -11:00pm unless we are having a movie or computer night or friends over then it can be later. Maybe it is worth noting that I have a mother who likes to get up earlier than him on the weekends and go to bed earlier so between them they have sort of worked out a compromise.
I should probably add that during the week he gets up early between 6:30am -7:00am and goes to bed between 9:00pm-9:30pm. And his sleeping in time on the weekend includes things like breakfast in bed and reading.

Last edited by cafeclutz; 26/10/2009 at 12:15 AM. Reason: Automerged Doublepost
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  #16  
Old 26/10/2009, 12:53 AM
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He has never been very interested in psychology.
Makes extraversion even more likely.

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Originally Posted by cafeclutz
He hates being put in a box.
Indicates F (which we all, including your dad, agree that he is).

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Originally Posted by cafeclutz
He is quite excited by the fact that we find him difficult to type at home and also here now on this forum.
He is not that difficult to type. At least not more than many others. He is not a clear cut case, but considering that we so far have had no information about test results or what type profiles he identifies with or what kind of job he has etc. I don't consider him especially difficult.

Quote:
Originally Posted by cafeclutz
He has typed in tests we at home have asked him to do and work tests as Myers Briggs INFP, ENFP, ENFJ, ENTP, ENTJ, ESFJ, ESFP, ISFP. And in Socionics tests he has come out as ENFp, INFp, INFj, ENFj, ESFp, ISFp, ESFj, ESTj, ENTj,ESTp.
Which implies that either he doesn't understand the test questions very well, or he doesn't understand himself very well. Some of those types can of course be dismissed as impossible, based on what we know about him as a person and on how he comes across in those videos, but basically those test results don't tell us anything new at all.

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Originally Posted by cafeclutz
He hates movies full of swearing or killing. He prefers Science Fiction and clean comedies. He loves the movie Elf starring Will Ferrall.
That information is not especially relevant for typing purposes.

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Originally Posted by cafeclutz
He likes Nicole Ritchie and J.Lo.
Also rather irrelevant.

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Originally Posted by cafeclutz
Loves to have holidays and travel.
Rather irrelevant but can perhaps be seen as another (rather weak) argument for E.

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Originally Posted by cafeclutz
He hates conflict. Hates to see a family member cry. Likes to be the good parent.

He loves to be liked by everyone.
Confirms again that he is an F type of some sort, which we already knew.

Quote:
Originally Posted by cafeclutz
He is very tidy.
In what way? Both J and P types can be tidy, but they tend to be it in different ways. How does he plan and execute his work when he's at home? How does he work professionally? What is his typical energy cycle like?

Quote:
Originally Posted by cafeclutz
When up in front of people he has a habit of swinging his feet in front of each other and moving side to side. He has learnt to work on this.
Probably not relevant.

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Originally Posted by cafeclutz
He has an internal job check list that he ticks off as things are accomplished. Sometimes he makes you feel that you are a job on job check list.
How does that behaviour manifest itself exactly?

Quote:
Originally Posted by cafeclutz
On the weekend he likes the family to do things together and is a little bit upset if one of us goes off to the bedroom etc to do our own thing.
We can probably now say with certainty that he is an extravert. The ISFp hypothesis turned out to be false.

Quote:
Originally Posted by cafeclutz
He can be hard to get into a deep conversation with because it's like he has a silly switch and once it's turned on (and it is turned on very easily) then it is hard to turn off.

He is fantastic at improvisation.
Yes, he is definitely an extraverted type with ethics in the ego block. But exactly which one is still not settled once and for all.

Quote:
Originally Posted by cafeclutz
He uses other peoples information to help him appear smarter than he is.

He loves to socialize over food.
That's in line with what we already know.

Quote:
Originally Posted by cafeclutz
He does things in his own time but expects people to do what he asks immediately.
A behaviour that is consistent with many types.

Quote:
Originally Posted by cafeclutz
He is fantastic at delegating.
Doesn't tell us much about his type.

Quote:
Originally Posted by cafeclutz
He reminds us of Homer Simpson and has the nickname among some of his old work colleagues as Garfield.
Homer is certainly an EF type, Garfield's type I have no opinion on.

Quote:
He is not very good at keeping in contact with people from his past.
Neither am I.

Quote:
I should probably add that during the week he gets up early between 6:30am -7:00am and goes to bed between 9:00pm-9:30pm. And his sleeping in time on the weekend includes things like breakfast in bed and reading.
In order to determine whether he really is a night owl or an early bird we have to know when he works best, at what time of day he would prefer to do something important if he could choose freely, how his energy levels typically fluctuates during a typical day, and if possible also what his typical body temperature is like when he goes to bed compared to when he wakes up in the morning. A typical difference between night owls and early birds is that night owls tend to be warmer when they go to bed than when they wake up, whereas for early birds it is usually the other way around.
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Old 26/10/2009, 09:06 AM
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If your dad turns out to be an early bird by natural temperament, and if he also turns out to be a rational (j) type, then there is a type that could potentially explain most of the anomalies we have seen so far, and that type is the ENFj.

ENFj would explain my initial V.I. impression of him as intuitive. It would explain why describes himself as both competitive and ambitious (which fits ENFj much better than for example ISFp or ESFj). It would explain why some people are convinced that he is . And it is consistent with his, now more or less established in my opinion, extraversion. The ENFj type is of course also known for its leading abilities and for liking and being good at giving speeches in front of lots of people.

Your dad is not a typical ISFp, he is not a typical ESFj, and he is not really a typical ESFp either -- that much I'm sure of. I haven't studied the ENFj type nearly as much as I have studied, for example, the ESFj and the ISFp types in real life situations, but I know a couple of ENFjs, and there is a very distinct ENFj V.I. look that I am able to recognize when I see it. Unfortunately, your dad doesn't really have that particular look, but at the moment I can't rule out that he could look like an ENFj. Based on V.I. I think that ENFj is a better fit than ESFj, and I rule out all the introverted types as very unlikely now.

But every relevant piece of information must fit the type puzzle, and first I want to establish for sure whether he is a rational (j) type and an early bird, or if he is an irrational (p) type and a night owl. I will be extremely reluctant to accept that he might be a J type and a night owl, or a P type and a morning bird -- that is not really an option as far as I'm concerned.
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Old 26/10/2009, 09:06 AM
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Doesn't tell us much about his type.
Yes, it does, it points to Extroverted Rationals in most of the cases.

My final conclusion is that he's an ESFj, this makes sense with anything that was said (except playing computer games ).
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Old 26/10/2009, 09:47 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cafeclutz View Post
He has an internal job check list that he ticks off as things are accomplished. Sometimes he makes you feel that you are a job on job check list.
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Originally Posted by Prometheus View Post
How does that behaviour manifest itself exactly
Basically he has a list of goals that he decides have to be completed within a certain time frame and he doesn't stop to think very often about what others may need to do or how they are feeling. His goals/missions becomes top priority.

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He is very tidy.
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Originally Posted by Prometheus View Post
In what way? Both J and P types can be tidy, but they tend to be it in different ways. How does he plan and execute his work when he's at home? How does he work professionally?
At home dad schedules in his head what needs to be done and when. Often the when which needs to be done is 'now'. At work he works similar but the list is written down due to it's size. He likes everything to look neat and clean and placed in it's correct spot in shared spaces in the house. He will get whoever owns a particular item that is not in it's correct spot to come and get it to put away. However he does let people organize thier own spaces however they want.

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Originally Posted by Prometheus View Post
In order to determine whether he really is a night owl or an early bird we have to know when he works best, at what time of day he would prefer to do something important if he could choose freely, how his energy levels typically fluctuates during a typical day, and if possible also what his typical body temperature is like when he goes to bed compared to when he wakes up in the morning. A typical difference between night owls and early birds is that night owls tend to be warmer when they go to bed than when they wake up, whereas for early birds it is usually the other way around.
The time of day that dad would choose to do something is from 11:00am onwards. He says that he wakes with low energy levels which rise and dip during the day until he is ready for bed at night.

Last edited by cafeclutz; 26/10/2009 at 09:47 AM. Reason: Automerged Doublepost
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  #20  
Old 26/10/2009, 10:27 AM
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The time of day that dad would choose to do something is from 11:00am onwards. He says that he wakes with low energy levels which rise and dip during the day until he is ready for bed at night.
That sounds somewhat strange. Based on how you first described him I thought he was more of a night owl, but some of the information you have added since then rather indicates early bird. If he has oscillating energy levels, that indicates EP or IP temperament rather than EJ or IJ, but he gets to bed very early for a night owl, at least with my standards, and he sleeps so much that it's complicating things somewhat.

Night owls more often wakes with low energy levels, early birds are often ready to go almost right away. I am a typical night owl myself, I wake up with low energy levels, but I would rather prefer to do something in the afternoon or later. Maybe your dad is not too different, however, considering that gets to bed so early in the evening. And considering that he goes up so early in the morning most of the days, 11.00 am is pretty late, relatively speaking. A typical early bird would probably do his best work before 11.00 in that scenario.

The issue is still not settled.
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