Go Back   Socionics Forums > Ramble Mumble

Ramble Mumble Anything goes, but please make an effort to stay positive and keep it socionics related.


Reply
 
Thread Tools
  #81  
Old 17/06/2008, 01:50 AM
RSV3's Avatar
RSV3 RSV3 is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 558
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kanerou View Post
Here it is again: http://socionics.us/works/semantics.shtml. I greatly enjoyed it. Thanks for the heads-up. I think this article is safe, as the socionists who wrote the book actually did experimentation to come up with the information.

Ah. OK. Is one more likely to be pessimistic?
If I had to choose one that would be more pessimistic, it would probably be Ni, but I don't think there really is a correlation between pessimism and Ni/Ne.
__________________
Sociotype.com

Increased expression of one function (1) suppresses the opposing intradichotomy function and (2) suppresses the opposing intrablock function (and vise versa).
Reply With Quote
  #82  
Old 17/06/2008, 01:55 AM
kensi's Avatar
kensi kensi is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 695
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by RSV3 View Post
At th risk of getting yelled at by Prom, I'll give you a short phrase definition for Ni and Ne.

Ne: explores possibilities
Ni: sees how events will unfold (temporal)
All I is really temporal w.r.t the impression of the real world of E. ???

Would you say that Ni is temporal only in the sense that it is reliant on the seemingly permanent Se that feeds it?

hmmmm..getting into the talk of temporal is actually a confusing analogy cause on the one hand you could say that all N is temporal and only S has real presence.............and on the other hand Only E is permanent and I is temporal....yet too you can claim the opposite using a different set of referencial logic. so hhmmmmmmmmmmmmm.

Quote:
Originally Posted by RSV3 View Post

Ne: explores possibilities
Ni: sees how events will unfold
I think though that stated in this form, this is pretty darn close.

Perhaps you could add that Ne has longer range or coverage, while Ni is more focused and direct

Quote:
Originally Posted by RSV3 View Post
If I had to choose one that would be more pessimistic, it would probably be Ni, but I don't think there really is a correlation between pessimism and Ni/Ne.
very well said.
__________________
Some Sort of Si + Fi valueing type.

Last edited by kensi; 17/06/2008 at 01:55 AM. Reason: Automerged Doublepost
Reply With Quote
  #83  
Old 17/06/2008, 01:55 AM
RSV3's Avatar
RSV3 RSV3 is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 558
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by kensi View Post
All I is really temporal w.r.t the impression of the real world of E. ???

Would you say that Ni is temporal only in the sense that it is reliant on the seemingly permanent Se that feeds it?

hmmmm..getting into the talk of temporal is actually a confusing analogy cause on the one hand you could say that all N is temporal and only S has real presence.............and on the other hand Only E is permanent and I is temporal....yet too you can claim the opposite using a different set of referencial logic. so hhmmmmmmmmmmmmm.
Temporal = pertaining to time.

All I meant was that Ni is more aware of how things will change with time. Ne doesn't look at cause and effect so much as just using Ne imagination to explore and discover new possibilities.
__________________
Sociotype.com

Increased expression of one function (1) suppresses the opposing intradichotomy function and (2) suppresses the opposing intrablock function (and vise versa).
Reply With Quote
  #84  
Old 17/06/2008, 02:03 AM
kensi's Avatar
kensi kensi is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 695
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by RSV3 View Post
Think about it this way, Ne looks at and explores a large number of possibilities, whereas Ni is more focused on the cause and effect of things. So an Ne person might say, "I've got 25 great ideas I've thought about," and an Ni person might say, "this idea/decision is crap because it will result in XXX happening."
very good point, again. However Brainstorming ideas and N are two different things altogether and must not be confused

i myself tend to feel more comfortable with Ne. The question is though, do you see me with more Ne or Ni

I will admit that sometimes it is hard to distinguish cause Ne as dominant means that one's personal knowledge is Ni and vice versa. Ni as creative means that one's Expression of Concrete Art is Ne.

You can run through all 4 scenarios and its not always easy to decipher especially when you throw in a T or F modifier.
__________________
Some Sort of Si + Fi valueing type.
Reply With Quote
  #85  
Old 17/06/2008, 02:04 AM
Kanerou's Avatar
Kanerou Kanerou is offline
Omnomnom
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 1,371
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by RSV3 View Post
Temporal = pertaining to time.

All I meant was that Ni is more aware of how things will change with time. Ne doesn't look at cause and effect so much as just using Ne imagination to explore and discover new possibilities.
So looking back and saying, "Now I can see why x", or "Why didn't I see y with all the signs" is?
__________________
http://www.formspring.me/ryeneastraelis Ask away. Naturally, I reserve the right to ignore or delete questions.
Reply With Quote
  #86  
Old 17/06/2008, 02:06 AM
kensi's Avatar
kensi kensi is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 695
Thumbs up

Quote:
Originally Posted by RSV3 View Post
Temporal = pertaining to time.

All I meant was that Ni is more aware of how things will change with time.
exactly.....Ni pertains to Changeability rather than the Coverage (Ne)
__________________
Some Sort of Si + Fi valueing type.
Reply With Quote
  #87  
Old 17/06/2008, 02:11 AM
RSV3's Avatar
RSV3 RSV3 is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 558
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kanerou View Post
So looking back and saying, "Now I can see why x", or "Why didn't I see y with all the signs" is?
Well if you mean someone saying, "I came up with this great idea but when I tried it out, it didn't work out like I thought it would." This is someone who prefers Ne and has Ni in their Id.

On the other hand, if someone says, "This moron came up with an idiotic idea that won't work because of the following reasons." This is someone who prefers Ni and has Ne in their Id.
__________________
Sociotype.com

Increased expression of one function (1) suppresses the opposing intradichotomy function and (2) suppresses the opposing intrablock function (and vise versa).
Reply With Quote
  #88  
Old 17/06/2008, 02:14 AM
Kanerou's Avatar
Kanerou Kanerou is offline
Omnomnom
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 1,371
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by RSV3 View Post
Well if you mean someone saying, "I came up with this great idea but when I tried it out, it didn't work out like I thought it would." This is someone who prefers Ne and has Ni in their Id.

On the other hand, if someone says, "This moron came up with an idiotic idea that won't work because of the following reasons." This is someone who prefers Ni and has Ne in their Id.
Real life example of this is: This guy is a jerk. You know, I saw the things he did, so why didn't I take the hint and realize he might pull them on me? (and) So that's what was happening at this certain time.
__________________
http://www.formspring.me/ryeneastraelis Ask away. Naturally, I reserve the right to ignore or delete questions.
Reply With Quote
  #89  
Old 17/06/2008, 02:17 AM
RSV3's Avatar
RSV3 RSV3 is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 558
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kanerou View Post
Real life example of this is: This guy is a jerk. You know, I saw the things he did, so why didn't I take the hint and realize he might pull them on me? (and) So that's what was happening at this certain time.
So is that what happened to you?
__________________
Sociotype.com

Increased expression of one function (1) suppresses the opposing intradichotomy function and (2) suppresses the opposing intrablock function (and vise versa).
Reply With Quote
  #90  
Old 17/06/2008, 02:17 AM
Kanerou's Avatar
Kanerou Kanerou is offline
Omnomnom
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 1,371
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by RSV3 View Post
So is that what happened to you?
Yeah. I tend to look back and regret, rehash, and wish for the better times that are now gone.
__________________
http://www.formspring.me/ryeneastraelis Ask away. Naturally, I reserve the right to ignore or delete questions.
Reply With Quote
  #91  
Old 17/06/2008, 02:21 AM
RSV3's Avatar
RSV3 RSV3 is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 558
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kanerou View Post
Yeah. I tend to look back and regret, rehash, and wish for the better times that are now gone.
Was that the ISTp you dated?
__________________
Sociotype.com

Increased expression of one function (1) suppresses the opposing intradichotomy function and (2) suppresses the opposing intrablock function (and vise versa).
Reply With Quote
  #92  
Old 17/06/2008, 02:21 AM
Kanerou's Avatar
Kanerou Kanerou is offline
Omnomnom
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 1,371
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by RSV3 View Post
Was that the ISTp you dated?
We weren't dating, but yes. The "wishing for better times" doesn't pertain to the ISTp. That was an INTp.
__________________
http://www.formspring.me/ryeneastraelis Ask away. Naturally, I reserve the right to ignore or delete questions.
Reply With Quote
  #93  
Old 17/06/2008, 02:29 AM
kensi's Avatar
kensi kensi is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 695
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by RSV3 View Post
Well if you mean someone saying, "I came up with this great idea but when I tried it out, it didn't work out like I thought it would." This is someone who prefers Ne and has Ni in their Id.

On the other hand, if someone says, "This moron came up with an idiotic idea that won't work because of the following reasons." This is someone who prefers Ni and has Ne in their Id.
You know your shit pretty well, i see it the same way, and this kind of logic helped me to narrow down my type from INFp to ENFp a few years back.

Only one thing...i would refrain from using a negative comment in one scenario and not in the other one. If you're true to your type, negativity is not an issue within your dominant world.
__________________
Some Sort of Si + Fi valueing type.
Reply With Quote
  #94  
Old 23/06/2008, 04:49 PM
Kanerou's Avatar
Kanerou Kanerou is offline
Omnomnom
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 1,371
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by kensi View Post
Only one thing...i would refrain from using a negative comment in one scenario and not in the other one. If you're true to your type, negativity is not an issue within your dominant world.
Explain that to pessimists.
__________________
http://www.formspring.me/ryeneastraelis Ask away. Naturally, I reserve the right to ignore or delete questions.
Reply With Quote
  #95  
Old 23/06/2008, 04:59 PM
chinosleep chinosleep is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 414
Default

Ummm (just re-using this same thread) is it possible for an ISFj to pick up on a ISFps traits. Yesterday we were both working together as usual and she started to tell me to y'know, do this, then do that, then do this (ISFj's generally dont tell people what to do but me and her have known each other for so long, so I'm starting to presume shes getting comfortable telling me what to do) and then after a while I think she saw my face getting upset and she asked 'Am I getting annoying?' and I replied affirmingly, "Very annoying" because I was getting upset her telling me to do this (which to a ISFp especially looks like in a cold way - this is were ISFp's and ISFjs differ hugely) ISFp's main function is feelings being able to read people really well so in other words we can be deeply empathetic and our morals (I'll explain why I mentioned morals) is way down our functions to the point, that we don't care so much about certain ethics or something, whereas on the other hand ISFj's main function is they're morals and their ability to read other people is terrible, one of their last - thats why people can easily trick them and take advantage of them) But I could've sworn, that she picked up that she was hurting me and she started to act like me being more empathetic and she looked at me in this whole new way. Did she realise what she was doing and became more empathetic and more developed feeling? We started working properly as a team instead of her resigning me to the 'hes lazy' (i think IJ's generally think that of IP's - which is basically true) but I worked my butt off at that work, and most of the time if we were working on something together she would usually just disreguard me even if I was working really fast...she would interrupt me and then she would work even faster (you could see how annoying that is!) but yesterday we started working as a team, and she started handing me stuff and actually helping instead of thinking she has to get things done her way.....It was weird
Reply With Quote
  #96  
Old 23/06/2008, 06:16 PM
Cyclops Cyclops is offline
Gone on holiday...
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 2,284
Default Chino's quasi identical 'lurvin' attitude :eek:

The Aggressor romance style, identified by Viktor Gulenko, includes the four types with in their ego

Despite the differences between these types in terms of temperament, base function, and quadra values, it seems that in the area of physical attraction, desire, flirting, and the like, in intimate relationships, the irrational ego element , coupled with their expectations of style behavior in intimate partners, is the most visible factor in an Aggressor's behavior.


Typical Characteristics ....
  • focus is more on own interest than whether or not the other person might reciprocate
  • romantic interaction is more about "toughness" than "tenderness"
  • needs to feel some sense of "superiority" over the partner, but worthwhile only if the partner is seen as able to largely "keep up"
  • this takes the form of power games, which others might regard as cruel or bitchy
  • in the case of female Aggressors with male partners, the above tends to assume the characteristic of a woman expecting total devotion from the partner, rather than her being "bossy"
  • little inclination to externally admit not having been the one to end a relationship, unless if adopting a "who cares" front simultaneously
This romance style is defined by focus on , which is static, irrational, and extroverted. This means that an Aggressor sees attraction to another person as a static state, which he feels it is up to him to change in the direction more in agreement to his preference. This accounts for an Aggressor's inclination to take the initiative in approaching the object of his interest and being "relentless" in his pursuit, as well as, even during an established relationship, continuing to try to "shake things up" or "get things moving". If his partner is not receptive to such behavior, this discourages the Aggressor, and results in his interest cooling off.
Reply With Quote
  #97  
Old 24/06/2008, 07:56 PM
econdude econdude is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 33
Default Quasi-identical

No type relationship is good or bad, but to me the quasi-identical relationship presents more challenges than usual. As an INTj, friendships with INTps (a somewhat rare occurance) would start out well enough and then deteriorate. Now, with my knowledge of socionics, they don't start at all.

The INTp will take an opposite stance from yours whether they even agree with it or not, and then endlessly use bits of logic to make a counter-argument to everything you say. Does that sound like something an INTj would enjoy?
Reply With Quote
  #98  
Old 24/06/2008, 08:49 PM
chinosleep chinosleep is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 414
Default

No not at all. hm :\
Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT +1. The time now is 01:40 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.1
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright 2007 SOCIONICS.COM