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  #61  
Old 15/06/2008, 11:02 AM
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Originally Posted by kensi View Post
A dot preference is an S preference.
I don't have a dot preference.

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Originally Posted by kensi
Proms liking of the various coinage of objectivity which he chooses to use----you'd think that to be a T preference.
As far as i can see, and i don't have to look far, this is an ST preference.
I have told you that you don't understand these things, and it still holds true, but you refuse to listen. I certainly don't have an ST preference. Vibration understands that of course.

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I think Prom is an exception to look out for. Few people understand him. I guess that moldy mustard must catchup with his future.
INTps understand other INTps perfectly. Other types don't.

Last edited by Prometheus; 15/06/2008 at 11:02 AM. Reason: Automerged Doublepost
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  #62  
Old 15/06/2008, 01:04 PM
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N people have doubts... N is for Normal of course

You don't seem to have any doubts, Prom, ever. Don't you think there could be something wrong with your head? I mean a short circuit in one of the silicone chips?
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  #63  
Old 15/06/2008, 01:30 PM
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N people have doubts... N is for Normal of course
Ne types are extremely bad at seeing Ni as N. You seem to be almost blind to it.

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You don't seem to have any doubts, Prom, ever.
I have passed beyond that stage when it comes to the types. If you check some of the first posts I made on this forum, I think you'll see that I was not as certain back then. But I have reached to point of no return a long time ago. I am absolutely certain that I have got the types right, especially my own and some of the others (including the INTj).

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Don't you think there could be something wrong with your head? I mean a short circuit in one of the silicone chips?
Not anything important anyway. My Fe wires are in a bad shape, though, I'll admit to that.
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  #64  
Old 15/06/2008, 08:56 PM
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N people have doubts... N is for Normal of course

You don't seem to have any doubts, Prom, ever. Don't you think there could be something wrong with your head? I mean a short circuit in one of the silicone chips?
Didn't you remark that I frequently have doubts?
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  #65  
Old 15/06/2008, 09:38 PM
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Ne types are extremely bad at seeing Ni as N. You seem to be almost blind to it.
(.
does this have to do with the fact that Ni is either the 7th function(personal knowledge) / 8th function(Concrete Art) ?
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  #66  
Old 15/06/2008, 10:31 PM
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does this have to do with the fact that Ni is either the 7th function(personal knowledge) / 8th function(Concrete Art) ?
No, the reason must be something else, because Ni types like myself have no difficulty seeing Ne as N.
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  #67  
Old 17/06/2008, 01:08 AM
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seeing Ne as N.
what does that mean?
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  #68  
Old 17/06/2008, 01:55 AM
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what does that mean?
The (Ne) types, for example SG (INTj), have trouble seeing me (INTp) as an intuitive (N) type because their conception of intuition seems to be highly influenced by their preferred version of intuition (Ne). So they have a tendency to dismiss Ni ego types as non-intuitive. I know that I am an INTp, but SG has said that he can't see my N -- he seems to be blind to it. And a lot of other Ne types (for example some ENFps) have the same problem. The solution is of course that they learn how to spot Ni.
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  #69  
Old 17/06/2008, 01:57 AM
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The (Ne) types, for example SG (INTj), have trouble seeing me (INTp) as an intuitive (N) type because their conception of intuition seems to be highly influenced by their preferred version of intuition (Ne). So they have a tendency to dismiss Ni ego types as non-intuitive. I know that I am an INTp, but SG has said that he can't see my N -- he seems to be blind to it. And a lot of other Ne types (for example some ENFps) have the same problem. The solution is of course that they learn how to spot Ni.
So what do you consider to be the definition of Ni?
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  #70  
Old 17/06/2008, 02:20 AM
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So what do you consider to be the definition of Ni?
I don't consider anything to be the definition of Ni. The functions are almost impossible to define accurately without being misleading. What we should try to understand is how the functions manifest themselves in the behaviour and attitudes of the types. That is basically the same thing as understanding the types as whole units, that is understanding as many aspects of each type as possible.

You can read lists of typical manifestations of each function, and you can find such lists useful, but to try to find an exact definition of a function is a mistake. We should study the functions by empirical methods instead of defining them. We don't know the real nature of Ni or any other function either until we have made scientific progress in this area.

There are many misconceptions about the types that are caused by erroneous definitions of the functions, for example the idea that Ni is linked to mysticism. That is most likely just a myth, and that myth stems from Jung. It seems to be an empirical fact that INTjs are more influenced by mysticism than INTps, and according to Socionics it should be the other way around. That mistake should be corrected.
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  #71  
Old 17/06/2008, 02:23 AM
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Originally Posted by Prometheus View Post
I don't consider anything to be the definition of Ni. The functions are almost impossible to define accurately without being misleading. What we should try to understand is how the functions manifest themselves in the behaviour and attitudes of the types. That is basically the same thing as understanding the types as whole units, that is understanding as many aspects of each type as possible.

You can read lists of typical manifestations of each function, and you can find such lists useful, but to try to find an exact definition of a function is a mistake. We should study the functions by empirical methods instead of defining them. We don't know the real nature of Ni or any other function either until we have made scientific progress in this area.

There are many misconceptions about the types that are caused by erroneous definitions of the functions, for example the idea that Ni is linked to mysticism. That is most likely just a myth, and that myth stems from Jung. It seems to be an empirical fact that INTjs are more influenced by mysticism than INTps, and according to Socionics it should be the other way around. That mistake should be corrected.
Rick DeLong has summarised a book on how functions communicate through people; he said the socionists found that Ni-leading people do not identify with the mysticism comment. Anyway, have you read the piece? It is very good and quite informative.
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  #72  
Old 17/06/2008, 02:27 AM
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Originally Posted by Prometheus View Post
The (Ne) types, for example SG (INTj), have trouble seeing me (INTp) as an intuitive (N) type because their conception of intuition seems to be highly influenced by their preferred version of intuition (Ne). So they have a tendency to dismiss Ni ego types as non-intuitive. I know that I am an INTp, but SG has said that he can't see my N -- he seems to be blind to it. And a lot of other Ne types (for example some ENFps) have the same problem. The solution is of course that they learn how to spot Ni.
You make a very good point in referencing--it may be a hard thing to do.....btw since perhaps i can not fully see myself within the N Field since this is by all indications to me my dominant base world.......what type would you say that i am judging by my writing style and the profile picture ? I'm interested to hear your own version.

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So what do you consider to be the definition of Ni?

In quick response......Ni is a perceptive( data gathering ) internal reference (and a future oriented one too)to an already judgmental component of the world.....either the subjective/living/artistic Fe or the objective/sustenance/buildable Te
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Last edited by kensi; 17/06/2008 at 02:27 AM. Reason: Automerged Doublepost
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  #73  
Old 17/06/2008, 02:38 AM
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At th risk of getting yelled at by Prom, I'll give you a short phrase definition for Ni and Ne.

Ne: explores possibilities
Ni: sees how events will unfold (temporal)
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  #74  
Old 17/06/2008, 02:41 AM
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At th risk of getting yelled at by Prom, I'll give you a short phrase definition for Ni and Ne.

Ne: explores possibilities
Ni: sees how events will unfold (temporal)
What about seeing a variety of possible outcomes? Ni or Ne?
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  #75  
Old 17/06/2008, 02:43 AM
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Rick DeLong has summarised a book on how functions communicate through people;
I know. His summary of the information elements is the kind of list I am talking about.

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he said the socionists found that Ni-leading people do not identify with the mysticism comment.
Where has he said that? Have I missed it? It is very interesting and important anyway, because then there might be empirical evidence (studies) supporting what I have observed in the types in real life and the literature.

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Anyway, have you read the piece? It is very good and quite informative.
Yes, I have read the summary though it has been a while since I took a look at it. I have several times recommended people who want to understand the functions better to read it, but people tend to refuse and stick to their misconceptions about the functions. (But you should also be aware of the fact that Rick has some incorrect ideas about the types too, for example about how the Se function manifests itself in the behaviour of some types.)
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  #76  
Old 17/06/2008, 02:45 AM
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What about seeing a variety of possible outcomes? Ni or Ne?
Seeing the outcome of events is more Ni, even if the person sees a number of possible outcomes.
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  #77  
Old 17/06/2008, 02:45 AM
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What about seeing a variety of possible outcomes? Ni or Ne?
That's Ne. Ni is more linked to seeing the most likely outcome, or the only possible outcome. Ne expands, Ni narrows down.
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  #78  
Old 17/06/2008, 02:46 AM
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Here it is again: http://socionics.us/works/semantics.shtml. I greatly enjoyed it. Thanks for the heads-up. I think this article is safe, as the socionists who wrote the book actually did experimentation to come up with the information.

Ah. OK. Is one more likely to be pessimistic?
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  #79  
Old 17/06/2008, 02:48 AM
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Think about it this way, Ne looks at and explores a large number of possibilities, whereas Ni is more focused on the cause and effect of things. So an Ne person might say, "I've got 25 great ideas I've thought about," and an Ni person might say, "this idea/decision is crap because it will result in XXX happening."
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  #80  
Old 17/06/2008, 02:49 AM
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Think about it this way, Ne looks at and explores a large number of possibilities, whereas Ni is more focused on the cause and effect of things. So an Ne person might say, "I've got 25 great ideas I've thought about," and an Ni person might say, "this idea/decision is crap because it will result in XXX happening."
*laughs* Which is why they are Extinguishing.
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