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Old 14/03/2006, 04:32 PM
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Default Re: The narrow-mindedness of Russian Socionics

Quote:
Originally posted by Epic:
I really think that this is imaginary. I don't remember anyone ever saying anything along the lines that cause Augusta was ENTp that ENTp's are the best at understanding socionics. I don't speak Russian, so I can't say what it is like in Russia, but I think that this is just a really lopsided assumption with alterior motives.
Well Epic, I think it would be really interesting to know what the ulterior motives in your opinion are. Maybe I have imagined all this stuff, maybe it is all untrue, I let you decide.

There is this thing in Socionics called "Zakon smeniaemosti kvadr", which translates as "The law of quadrable alternation". It has been formulated by A. Bukalov, the director of Socionics Institute in Kiev and V. Gulenko, you already know. This "law" is also included in several Socionics publications.

What does it mean? It means that the quadrables alternate in the following fashion: Beta comes after Alpha, Gamma comes after Beta, Delta comes after Gamma and Alpha comes after Delta and so on. This is how they explain it.

Every idea has 4 stages of existence. 1) It is born, 2) It is tried, 3) It is pushed, 4) It is utilised. When it dies on the forth stage it is because there is a better idea, so in a way the old idea gives birth to a new idea and then the cycle repeats itself.

Ok, so far it sounds about right. So these guys put two and two together and came up with the idea to link these 4 stages to the 4 quadrables, and it worked. The Alpha quadrable gives birth to an idea, Beta tries it, Gamma pushes it, Delta milks it. Wonderful, no problem, it seems that this is the way it happens in reality.

Then them or somebody else decided to appoint an ENTp as a leader of Alpha quadrable and call ENTp "The programmer" because they were convinced that ENTp is the one that defines the direction Alpha quadrable takes as a unit of the Socion. So Alpha quadrable is important because it generates new ideas and ENTps are important because they are the leaders of Alpha quadrable.

Can you see now where this ENTp exclusiveness comes from? ENTp comes up with an idea that the WHOLE Socion works on... ENTp IS THE PROGRAMMER OF THE SOCION!!! So everything begins with an ENTp, or maybe I just imagine it?

Now this is the Socion:

ENTp ISFp ESFj INTj
ENFj ISTj ESTp INFp
ESFp INTp ENTj ISFj
ESTj INFj ENFp ISTp

The first two columns called left Ring of Benefit because there are relations of Benefit between ENTp -> ENFj -> ESFp -> ESTj -> ENTp... Same for ISFp -> ISTJ ->...etc. It goes downwards.

The last two called the right Ring of Benefit and it goes upwards. So what they say is that the first two rings push the idea forward and the last two rings resist it and therefore it refines the idea on the way.

(If you rearrange the types slightly differently you get Rings of Supervision, but they will still go with the Rings of Benefit direction wise.)

So what did they miss?

Straight away. What about an ENFp? They have the same fundamental as an ENTp and is equally capable of coming up with crazy ideas, which maybe not oriented but oriented, but this does not make those ideas less radical. The Big Brother idea is the work of an ENFp, none the less. And so this idea is born in Delta quadrable instead of Alpha and it gets pushed upwards instead of downwards where it still has all 4 stages of transformation and it finishes in Alpha instead of Delta.

Ok, what about if an ISFj comes up with an idea? Or maybe ISFj cannot come up with an idea? Of course an ISFj can perfectly well come up with an idea and so any other type. I will be different from ENFp's idea or ENTp's idea, but it will still be an idea.

One more thing, there is no exclusive "The programmer" in a quadrable. "The programmer" is the type that comes up with an idea because in relation to that idea the whole quadrable is listening to "The programmer".

So does it still look like my own imagination Epic?

Disclaimer: I do not have anything against ENTps, I love you guys, please don't misunderstand my intentions.
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