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-   -   Is quasi-identical such a bad thing? (http://www.socionics.com/forums/showthread.php?t=900)

chinosleep 09/06/2008 03:51 PM

Is quasi-identical such a bad thing?
 
Reading the definition of it, it seems so grim. "Neither of them see each other as equal", "Each partner sees the other as less capable than themselves", "Both partners are convinced that whatever their partner was trying to say, could be explained in a different and more understandable way." That sounds horrible! I dont understand. What brings this misunderstanding. Basically it's defining the difference between P and J isnt it?

Prometheus 09/06/2008 08:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chinosleep (Post 11486)
Reading the definition of it, it seems so grim. "Neither of them see each other as equal", "Each partner sees the other as less capable than themselves", "Both partners are convinced that whatever their partner was trying to say, could be explained in a different and more understandable way." That sounds horrible! I dont understand. What brings this misunderstanding. Basically it's defining the difference between P and J isnt it?

No, but it has something to do with it.

chinosleep 09/06/2008 08:44 PM

Well one wants to be impulsive and is disorganised, and the other one plans ahead. "Quasi-Identicals normally have no difficulties in finding topics for conversation or discussion. When it comes to solving problems together, Quasi-Identical partners begin to understand that they are both thinking in very different ways. Soon Quasi-Identicals may start regretting the time that they have spent together, believing that it was just wasted time" Regretting the time they spent together? "Quasi-identical relations are very fragile and normally break without regret as there is usually nothing to resist their disunion" Resist their disunion if they want to. Is it trying to say that if two were looking for something deeper then quasi-identicals are not for them? And then you've got the 'Identical' relationship. That'd be just like going out with yourself. Is that supposedly better?

chinosleep 10/06/2008 11:02 PM

Ah forget it I recently found this http://www.socionics.com/articles/irra.htm

I think I understand now. I wouldn't mind my days being planned it'd give me more sense of purpose and direction which is what I need anyway. Wouldn't that be a good balance of J and P, I'm not really a stubborn person.

Great website!

Vibration 12/06/2008 01:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Prometheus (Post 11520)
.
Basically it's defining the difference between P and J isnt it?
No, but it has something to do with it.

How can it NOT be part of the definition of the difference bewteen P and J if it has something to do with definition of the difference between P and J? You are SO T!

Prometheus 12/06/2008 01:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vibration (Post 11835)
How can it NOT be part of the definition of the difference bewteen P and J if it has something to do with definition of the difference between P and J? You are SO T!

The general differences between Quasi-Identicals are a subset of all the general differences between J and P types. But the the former are not part of the definition of the latter.

kensi 12/06/2008 09:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vibration (Post 11835)
How can it NOT be part of the definition of the difference bewteen P and J if it has something to do with definition of the difference between P and J? You are SO T!

Don't ask this idiot (Prometheus)---there isn't a bigger moron on this site.

chinosleep 12/06/2008 07:52 PM

I think Prom maybe be better off with other T friends. But that aside, if you look up that article in the link, then differences between J and P wouldn't be serious arguments....it would be lots of little ones like getting in each others way, and one being way too organised. Little stuff, thats no big deal is it?

Prometheus 12/06/2008 08:05 PM

The differences between rational and irrational types (Js and Ps) are about having different biological life rhythms. The differences between two Quasi-Identical types are about preferring totally different socionic functions.

Two Quasi-Identicals have trouble understanding each others value systems and each others different ways of thinking, resulting in misunderstandings and often not knowing exactly what the other person is trying to say or what his or her real motives are.

In contrast, two Mirror types (also always one J and one P) understand each other very well when it comes to values, motives, and what the other peson is trying to say. The situation is totally different here.

chinosleep 12/06/2008 08:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Prometheus (Post 11892)
The differences between rational and irrational types (Js and Ps) are about having different biological life rhythms. The differences between two Quasi-Identical types are about preferring totally different socionic functions.

Two Quasi-Identicals have trouble understanding each others value systems and each others different ways of thinking, resulting in misunderstandings and often not knowing exactly what the other person is trying to say or what his or her real motives are.

In contrast, two Mirror types (also always one J and one P) understand each other very well when it comes to values, motives, and what the other peson is trying to say. The situation is totally different here.

Oh so that sounds like theres a big difference. Each others value systems? Each others ways of thinking that sounds like there could be really big misunderstandings... If I could have an example (I remember it said somewhere, a essay written by your partner looks totally 'weird' or something like that.) Value how do you mean exactly by that? Like morals or something? :S Damn this sounds like a potential disaster then for quasi-identicals.

Prometheus 12/06/2008 09:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chinosleep (Post 11894)
Oh so that sounds like theres a big difference. Each others value systems? Each others ways of thinking that sounds like there could be really big misunderstandings... If I could have an example (I remember it said somewhere, a essay written by your partner looks totally 'weird' or something like that.) Value how do you mean exactly by that? Like morals or something? :S Damn this sounds like a potential disaster then for quasi-identicals.

The simplest way to explain the differences in life outlooks is perhaps to point out that Quasi-Identicals belong to opposing quadras.

Kanerou 13/06/2008 02:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Prometheus (Post 11895)
The simplest way to explain the differences in life outlooks is perhaps to point out that Quasi-Identicals belong to opposing quadras.

So do you reject the idea of quadras or merely the idea of typing by quadra?

Prometheus 13/06/2008 03:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kanerou (Post 11909)
So do you reject the idea of quadras or merely the idea of typing by quadra?

The quadras exist, and when you have got your correct type they add something important to your overall understanding of the types and their relations. But to start with the quadras in the typing process is always a very bad idea that leads most people astray.

Kanerou 13/06/2008 03:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Prometheus (Post 11912)
The quadras exist, and when you have got your correct type they add something important to your overall understanding of the types and their relations. But to start with the quadras in the typing process is always a very bad idea that leads most people astray.

Hm. I get what you're saying, but I can't agree. To me, it sounds illogical. Are you saying they're too broad and stereotyped, or are you trying to say something else?

Prometheus 13/06/2008 03:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kanerou (Post 11913)
Hm. I get what you're saying, but I can't agree. To me, it sounds illogical. Are you saying they're too broad and stereotyped, or are you trying to say something else?

A quadra is not a group of types that are similar. All of the types in a certain quadra are much more different than they are similar. You should compare yourself with other socionic groups, for example the Clubs:

1. NT Researchers
2. NF Humanitarians
3. ST Pragmatists
4. SF Socials

We already know that you are a NF Humanitarian, but as a type you have more in common with other NF types than you have with the members of your quadra.

You should try to determine the four dichotomies before you try to determine your quadra. You are either an INFp or an ENFp. I can't see anything wrong with INFp, but if you are not an INFp, then you are necessarily extraverted. So are you an extravert or an introvert?

Kanerou 13/06/2008 03:37 AM

Hm. That makes sense.

RSV3 13/06/2008 03:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Prometheus (Post 11914)
A quadra is not a group of types that are similar. All of the types in a certain quadra are much more different than they are similar.

Wrong. Every small group (quadras, temperaments, clubs, etc) has the same number of similarities and differences with intra-group members as any other small group. This is because each small group is a combination of a certain number of dichotomies which every member of the small group shares in common with each other.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Prometheus (Post 11914)
You should compare yourself with other socionic groups, for example the Clubs:

1. NT Researchers
2. NF Humanitarians
3. ST Pragmatists
4. SF Socials

We already know that you are a NF Humanitarian, but as a type you have more in common with other NF types than you have with the members of your quadra.

This is wrong again. She should not be examining club differences precisely because she is already a known NF; you have it reversed. If she already knows she's an NF, then looking at club differences is redundant and irrelevant. She is trying to determine E/I and J/P dichotomies at this point which makes quadras, temperaments, etc. the more pertinent small groups for her to examine.

Kanerou 13/06/2008 03:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RSV3 (Post 11916)
This is wrong again. She should not be examining club differences precisely because she is already a known NF; you have it reversed. If she already knows she's an NF, then looking at club differences is redundant and irrelevant. She is trying to determine E/I and J/P dichotomies at this point which makes quadras, temperaments, etc. the more pertinent small groups for her to examine.

I think that was more a general "you should". If not, he still says I'm NF.

RSV3 13/06/2008 04:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kanerou (Post 11917)
I think that was more a general "you should". If not, he still says I'm NF.

It just sounded like he was directing you to look at clubs which to me makes very little sense since your NF status seems fairly well discerned at this point. But it's very possible I misinterpreted.

It is also ironic that I may have misinterpreted Prom (my quasi-identical) in the thread discussing whether quasi-identical relationships are bad. :)

Kanerou 13/06/2008 04:14 AM

*laughs* That is great.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Prometheus (Post 11914)
So are you an extravert or an introvert?

What happens if I end up balanced? :D


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