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Question #1277033301Sunday, 20-Jun-2010
Category: Duality ESFj
Is the analyst really able to handle the enthusiast somewhat difficult behaviour better than any other type? There is a degree of consensus on internet forums that the enthusiast (ESFJ) is regarded as one of the most difficult types to be around. The reason can be their irrational behaviour like a sudden change in mood that can disappear as quickly as it appeared. They can be nortoriously critical of others and pass this off as advice and yet do not take criticism well from others. Much to my dismay there is a dogmatic assumption that their dual partner the analyst (INTJ) can remain unaffected by their flippant behaviour and come to the rescue like their missing piece. Lets put that assumption to rest. That is untrue. The analyst is tolerant and can put up with more than most but being tolerant is not the same as being appreciative and loving. What really needs to happen is for the enthusiast to stop being so critical of others - in my opinion no one likes to be put up against the wall and the analyst is no exception. They may handle stress better and the enthusiast can stress people out with their surprisingly sharp statements but the analyst is still stressed (the opposite to being relaxed and allowing yourself to have fun, be creative and spontaneous). If your an analyst please provide your input to what might be a topic of debate and for any other type please provide your two cents on the question. -- Anonymous
Your Answers: 1+ 13+
A13 I am an INTj, and, while not all my experiences with duality have been positive, when it's good, it's really good. ESFjs literally breathe life into our souls. They are wonderful sources of energy and enthusiasm, which we can seldom provide for ourselves. I had an ESFj friend who was like a father to me. He would tell me what kind of day I'd had before I even realized how I was feeling. He was always generous with time, money, advice, or support. ESFjs may be critical people, but so are INTjs. Their criticism is rooted in practical ethics and very minute; this is the flip-side of INTjs' more theoretical criticisms. I find this moral concern, usually conveyed by means of colorful anecdotes, actually quite entertaining and endearing, so long as it's not directed at me. It never really was directed at me, because ESFjs don't really like criticizing people they care about/idealize and can recognize implicitly and approve of INTjs' good intentions. It seemed to me that my ESFj literally thought I was perfect, which I attributed to both duality and his dominant emotions. BTW, I have found that it is sometimes better for INTjs to ignore ESFjs a bit in the beginning; let them do the work of getting to know you so that they appreciate you gradually over time-it works like a charm. -- Anonymous
A14 I absolutely agree with A13! I am an INTj female and I only have positive things to say about ESFjs. With some of the comments above, namely A3 and A7, consider that it may be possible that you've mistyped yourself. I type as INTJ in MBTI, but in Socionics I am also an INTj. Typically, I found that INTJ's in MBTI can go either way and some of them are actually INTp's in Socionics. A7, I would agree that you are interacting with an ESFj but all that stuff you said about their motives (a very Ni assessment) are not true in my experience. ESFj's very much live in the moment and they talk about their relationships, but not because they are trying to manipulate you in any way. They literally just talk a bunch about anything that comes to mind and subconsciously are hoping that someone (like an INTj) will make some sense out of it, or that it will cheer someone up with their silliness. Unfortunately Socionics is still flawed in the sense that we can't come to a consensus on typing, which is the fundamental of the framework, so perhaps for now it's not suitable as anything to be taken way too rigidly as the truth. -- Anonymous
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A15 I'm an INTJ Male who can't stand the simplistic mentality of ESFs (Ps and Js). They're like children even well into their 50s. It was stated they don't see the logically obvious, one word... Bingo! That is the very part that frustrates me most and root of most arguments between us. In recent years I've learned to tune them out and not take them seriously; even though they demand so desperately to be taken as such. Someone asked for an example-A5 I believe-well here you go: They might complain that it's noisy, but not realize that they blasting the Boise Home Entertainment system up to max capacity is the cause. That's a very simple example, but I think it highlights the core principle. I've grown up with ESFs my entire life. They can worry, argue, flip-out, over the most irrelevant **** known to man. They're like those screaming goats (or Jar-Jar Binks on Star Wars) on commercials, one second they're calm, then... WHAAAAAAAAAAGH!!! they're "enthusiastic" with or without reason. The volatility is overwhelming. I don't know how they're considered a dual to the INTJ ESPECIALLY in a romantic relationship. I find them annoying as Family members and acquaintances, let alone upgrading that to a more intimate level; I'd go crazy. I wouldn't enter a long-term relationship with this type or marry them; Til death do us part will come sooner rather than later via strangling them. Even a short-term relationship might be a stretch. I've yet to come across a TRULY intelligent ESF; not saying they don't exist. But from experience I find that most love to FAKE being intellectual more than actually putting the work into improving their IQs; their shallowness usually shines bright when you actually KNOW them. They tend to make outstanding first impressions though, at least to the naive who can't see past their solid wall of superficial BS. This type also seems to love punching people in the face then act like they're the victim when they get punched back. Metaphorically speaking, hell, literally speaking as well. I'd take a strong INTJ female any day; contrary to what A8 said. I find the NT trait more desirable in women. I rather have someone who knows what they want and what they are talking about than some 'emotionally unstable, confused all the damn time, absence of basic logic' (Stereotypically speaking) ESF; I have no patience for that. Excuse me if I sound like a snob. -- MBTI and Socionics INTJ
A16 A15, you come across somewhat arrogantly, like many INTj, but you may not be on the inside. You likely find it difficult to deal with or understand emotion so you tend to discount or belittle it. Letting emotion out every now and then is better than stewing-'til-you-explode or depress. ESTj can show you how to get out of yourself and your self-imposed pressure cooker (and every INTj has one); you likely need more mindless diversion than you realize, for your own sanity. You may also not realize that an INTj needs help to think outside of his or her EQ-deficient box. -- An old INTj
A17 Typo in A16: replace ESTj with ESFj -- An old INTj
A18 A17 I thought an ESTJ-or rather an ESTP-made more sense with mentoring/guidance in the EQ department. As they tend to be more in touch with emotion, tact, social etiquette, etc. and also have a firm grasp of logic. ESFJs don't seem to be the contributing type; they're sideliners (either cheering or booing). Don't see how an ESFJ would be useful in getting you out of yourself. An INTJ will most likely be the Quarterback to a Cheerleader in the relationship. The oh so very tiresome Cheerleader. -- MBTI and Socionics INTJ
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