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Question #1277033301Sunday, 20-Jun-2010
Category: Duality ESFj
Is the analyst really able to handle the enthusiast somewhat difficult behaviour better than any other type? There is a degree of consensus on internet forums that the enthusiast (ESFJ) is regarded as one of the most difficult types to be around. The reason can be their irrational behaviour like a sudden change in mood that can disappear as quickly as it appeared. They can be nortoriously critical of others and pass this off as advice and yet do not take criticism well from others. Much to my dismay there is a dogmatic assumption that their dual partner the analyst (INTJ) can remain unaffected by their flippant behaviour and come to the rescue like their missing piece. Lets put that assumption to rest. That is untrue. The analyst is tolerant and can put up with more than most but being tolerant is not the same as being appreciative and loving. What really needs to happen is for the enthusiast to stop being so critical of others - in my opinion no one likes to be put up against the wall and the analyst is no exception. They may handle stress better and the enthusiast can stress people out with their surprisingly sharp statements but the analyst is still stressed (the opposite to being relaxed and allowing yourself to have fun, be creative and spontaneous). If your an analyst please provide your input to what might be a topic of debate and for any other type please provide your two cents on the question. -- Anonymous
Your Answers: 1+ 13+
A1 Certainly, the analyst is stressed. The analyst feels stress as much as anyone ~ they are just least likely to draw the line and leave this behavior. Instead, they will face the enthusiast with cold hard logic or withdraw reacting altogether to get the enthusiast to calm down. The enthusiast also needs to temper their own behavior and consider their impact their having on others. They need to recognize their shortcomings and own them. -- Anonymous
A2 I am a INTJ with a chronic worrying ESFJ girlfriend. She is the only girl who has the patience to listen to all my theories, ideas, lovesongs, intricate moments of my life, but i don't expect her to remember a thing. I think helps with memory making INTjs human encyclipedias, which gives the ESFjs what they need. I love her with everything ounce of my soul, but damn SLOW DOWN (ESFJ)WOMAN. Calm down. Hell is not going to freeze over if you don't get things done right now, but I can calm her down with reasoning and then provide multiple solutions for her to choose from . She cannot connect dots and i always have to tell her the "obvious". For as much as she worries or is too critical without any reason to back it up, she gets the mundane crap done I don't want to waste my time with. I tell her she is smart individual and should think on her own more. She tells me that I am not weird. We are both lie to each other because we love each other. She has to put up with me constantly embrassing her in public. She calms down when her needs are satified . Most of the things she stresses about aren't worth stressing about in the first place, so who cares if she worries alot. It is nice at the end of the day hearing her say "you were right honey. I should have listened to you." She will learn to relax... sometime... maybe not. oh well, she'll get happy again. -- spike
A3 INTJ girl here with a really exhausting ESFJ history.I think particularly this duality relation is somewhat doomed due to the fact that both partners simply don`t register the other person`s flashing signs.A2 described exactly how these types relate.The final 2 sentences make me break my PC in fury of what physiological torment I endured with my ex,trying to explain the obvious all the time,add to that the constant demand for public display of affection,which led me to turn into a sarcastic bitch that twists his every word and action just to make him look ridiculous,like he made me seem in front of people by manipulating others into believing how careful he is and how I am such a cold calculative bitch but he still cares for that poor creature. P.S.I think duality works wonders for friendships and business -- dontdateadual
A4 ESFJs are notoriously critical of themselves! They suppress their own feelings even if they disagree. In fact ESFJs are the best types to be around. I am dreaming to be around ESFJ females e.g. Erin Burnett, Heidi Klum, Demi Moor, Tricia Helfer... Do did you like watching Jay Leno shows? -- jgbr
A5 A1: I like your comment. A2: so your in favour of dual match between analyst and enthusiast? A3: you tip the scale in disfavour of dual matchup. A2, A3: you both mentioned the way inwhich the enthusiast misses the obvious. I'd like to hear an example. A2: your relationship sounds like the analyst anchors the enthusiast or is like a pillar of strength for the enthusiast to lean on. am I right? A3: your description is like the analyst and enthusiast speaks another language. The only thing you can agree on is that you disagree. I never realised that INTJ's would even partake in defacing anyone let alone their dual - go figure. -- Anonymous
A6 A3 described an Fe/Ni type, not Fe/Si, in lieu of what was clearly a conflictor relationship. @A4: What a bunch of baloney, all-around. -- Anonymous
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A7 A4: your on the mark. I mostly get along perfectly fine with ESFJ when meeting them for the first time and if given enough time sparks will fly. Naturally I'll want to hang out more or be interested in a relationship but when I mention stuff like that they'll respond that they want to remain single and independent - which when you think about it is really selfish given the chemistry we have. Like A3 mentioned that is when the relationship is doomed - perhaps their playing hard to get or don't want to appear too easy but in reality the situation becomes progressively dumber. The next time we meet consists of the ESFJ complaining how some clueless joe is so in love with her but she completely detests him and I'm suppose to laugh with her even though the first time we met I was in his shoes - this is mixed with undertones of her being interested in me after she turned me down and basically I'm suppose to compete with clueless joe to prove that I really do like her. Instead I get fed up with her egotism and move on and in a panic she ends up making out and dating clueless joe. Months later we'll all meet and basically she has turned me down, she is using clueless joe and she has totally denied her own feelings - not to mention clueless joe can even tell there is chemistry between her and I which puts him into a jealous rage and puts in me in a ackward position. Thanks ESFJ women you suck! Because when two people like each other, they should be apart, that is the way things are meant to be. -- Anonymous
A8 I'm assuming by how A5 responded, A5 is an ENTP. You are over-simplifying the issue. 1) Males INTJ's don't mind the ESFJ feminine blond cheerleaders type. 2) Female INTJ's I know are politically correct police feminist who can't handle "stupid" men. 3) The INTJ naturally points out the imperfections on how things should be (that includes people and our duels.) 4) The INTJ does not deface people, only a person's morals, ethics, actions, beliefs by analysising. 5) A3 (dontdateadual), to be quite honest, all INTJ women I meet treat their boyfriends terribly. There is a trend for INTJ's women to want to date other ENTP's or INTJ's. I wouldn't date one. They scare the **** out of me. They lack sincerity and point out my flaws just to make themselves seem smarter than their male counterparts or for revenge. 6) The LII men including myself restrain ourselves to point out a flaw if it is not without a graater ethical purpose. This purpuse is not rooted in revenge. 7) My personal history with ESFJ has been as such: First Crush; Several ESFJ professors; my coach; my mentoree I am working with right now; my current girlfriend; and my girlfriend's closest friend. Out of all these relationships, only one, my girlfriends friend has been partially negative (I was the backbone for her emotional friend, making my ESFJ jealous about her friend taking time away from our time). Each Duel relationship has been benefical on some level. 8) If the analyist is the pillar [Ne] to the enthusiast, the enthusiast is the roof that keeps the analyist dry [Si]. Duality is a two sided anchor. 9) The INTJ does not think in an up or down vote like an ENTP in favour or disfavour. Our reasoning is consequencial and intricate. 10)Only three comments is not enough data to conclude that "the only thing you can agree on is that you disagree." 11)I have researcher friends for my intellectual needs. If I were to only have one duel to depend all my energy or just one other of any type, we would kill each other. No one likes a socially needy person no matter what the type. 12) A5, I disagree. -- - spike
A9 hmmm interesting spike I'm actually INTJ...then again on another thread a person was convinced I was an ENTJ but my type is not really the topic of debate. Spike you have given me an idea. Originally I said the enthusiast can be hard to handle but you mentioned the way inwhich the enthusiast can benefit the analyst. To come full circle: is the enthusiast the best type to cheer up the analyst? to elevate their moods? -- Anonymous
A10 Elevating mood? Well, if you mean, it is hard to have a pity party for yourself when your duel is on an emotional rollercoaster, then yes. Caring for my enthusiast stablizes me as much as it stablizes her. I tell her what is wrong with her reasoning , and then I give obscure commentary , thus causing her to laugh which makes me laugh, so yes, it comes full cirle. -- - spike
A11 So OP isn't INTj? -- Anonymous
A12 it's sort of ignorant to think that the INTj has to deal with the ESFj and not take into consideration that maybe the ESFj has to deal with some annoying traits of the INTj. -- Anonymous
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