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Question #1238604242Wednesday, 1-Apr-2009
Category: Intertype Relations ENFp Theory
I tend to always be uneasy with ENFps, and often end up hating them. For a while they seem like the biggest, most arrogant assholes on the planet, who don't know the meaning of the word humility. And then a realization creeps up on me, they are simply just smarter than me...INTjs, to you I'm sure they just look stupid or unfocused. To me(I don't know what I am), they seem like they don't try, it always seems to me like I have everything they have+humility, then I stop and think that maybe they are just smarter or that they are exactly like me but embrace what they are. Their ideas never seem conceptually very deep, but you find that they have reasons to validate these ideas, that "come from the heart", and I'm usually inclined to discredit that as total bull****, completely and absolutely pretentious. They don't seem to really understand their feelings, and I think I'm everything they are and more, so what authority could they possibly have over me... I don't know what type I am, but this is the kind of behavior a supervisee(or however you spell it), shows towards the supervisor isn't it(which ever one is the dominant one, ...S.visee or S.visor)? How could I be some stupid ISFJ? Or is it conflict behavior? How could I be some rigid, heartless, ISTJ? I saw this obscure thing on a socionics forum a long time ago that proposed this theory, seemed like it was pretty well thought out...I don't know how it explained itself but it suggested that highly intelligent members of a specific type often take on the traits of the the type they supervise. Thus you wind up with really intense personalities like say...ENFP-ISFJ, or INTJ-ENFPs, or INFP-ESFJS, or ISTJ-ESFPs, or ESFP-INFJs, ENFJ-INTPs(eureka?). These look possible for me if this theory makes any sense at all. Why would I be so at conflict with ENFps? Am I simply an ENFj? Because I don't want to think I'm an ISTj, they are too plain. Still ENFj? The actor? Sounds stupid, I mean I'm bold, but I'm also very shy. Plus Fe is painted out to be such a superficial function. Maybe that explains why I simply cannot understand myself, because Fe prevents me from digesting the notion of true emotional humility. Well, as usual, this got way longer than I wanted it to. Answer about the ENFPs, that was my initial question. Do they **** anyone else off in the same way I describe? Does this sound like a feeler semi-dual relation. And does that elitist sounding theory of highly intelligent people make any sense, do you think its possible that it isn't just empty elitism? God, this is all so esoteric, but I can't stop thinking about it. -- Grant
Your Answers: 1+ 13+ 21+ 27+ 33+ 43+
A33 wow. ok. you write a LOT. there's a lot to take in... hmmm...Firstly, i can totally relate to your obsession with personality theories, as a means to self-understanding and enlightenment. Hwv, it sounds like your obsession has turned into an unhealthy one. You remind me of a Dilbert cartoon, where a woman is at the therapist, saying 'I want the best in relaxation therapy. The most advanced therapies there are. I want to be at the CUTTING edge of relaxation therapy!' or something along those lines. She says this with her fists and teeth clenched. Moral of the cartoon: in trying to find a cure for our problems, we can actually end up exacerbating them. This is especially true of self help techniques and theories. Use socionics theory to help you grow; don't let it control you. And if you are really keen on using socionics theory, as you seem to be, attempt to get a VERY FIRM GRASP of the conceptual content, and not a half-arsed understanding (which is as good as nothing i say). I also think it's a good idea to read some of the 'real' literature on psychology that's out there, just so you don't end up thinking solely inside the box of socionics. Also, I don't think it is a good idea to define those around you SOLELY by socionics categories. Try to appreciate the individual as a THINKING, FEELING individual, and not just an example of some theoretical construct. Furthermore, you seem to rely on and be highly influenced by the opinions and expectations of those around you. LEARN to construct your own opinion, and keep it separate from that of those around you. SEE others' opinion as information that can help INFORM your own opinion rather than something to submit to unquestioningly. AND THAT INCLUDES my opinion. You can accept or reject everything i've said here. My approach might not work for you. Allow me to present one last opinion...you're not autistic. I think you're highly perceptive, but you don't know what to do with all that information. And because of that unsureness and ambivalence, you end up being socially awkward. Autistics are socially awkward b/c they are socially ignorant. You, my friend, are not socially ignorant. -- Shez
A34 A neuropsyche recently told me something that was essentially the same as what you are saying. She told me to be kind to myself. Basically she was suggesting that I train to develop armor; they call this higher level thinking ability, self regulation, and that drives me crazy. I went through a period of not knowing how to not be deeply hurt that my mind still works like a little child's as a teenager inspite of my evolved sensibilities, she told me just be "nice to yourself", make it simple and apply it to everything, thats all you need to know, basically in a way that appealed to my complicated sensibilities as best as she could figure. But one thing occured to me; nature over nurture, she seemed to think I was capable of changing the way my DNA and whatever else had caused me to develop, but the truth is, my mind is never going to move very fast, and if I'm not "stuck", it seems like I'm not tapping into my sensibilities, and though my mind may be open with conscious effort, its just not going to move very fast, and it won't be competative at all. I might get through life, people might even enjoy me, but I'm never going to be able to compete. I guess if you are smart, you can have complete empathy for the systems of someone with a slower mind, with one exception, you don't experience that slower mind. I don't know what to do. I guess I'm just dumb and I'm not supposed to care about it in that way. Now I'm being a victim of circumstance. Being a victim for me is only anticipation of the inevitable, which is the circumstances I ultimately lack the natural ability to deal with. So I'm constantly finding a way to justify what I already have, hoping that I can know I'll get something accomplished with what I have. That doesn't make any sense though and I ocassionally come to terms with that, then its a matter of trying to get what I don't have, self monitoring and efficiency in the way I think. Then I'll finally get to become just like everyone else. If I think too hard, if I use my strength, I'll just be the odd man out again. I don't know how to take a positive message from my reality and pretending it isn't there won't help me in the end. -- Grant
A35 I think you underestimate the ability of your own mind to learn new skills. If you put enough time and effort into something, no matter how unnaturally it comes to you, you will eventually make forward progress. I think what that neuropsych said made a lot of sense. If you were less hard on yourself, it would unload some of the self-inflicted pressure that's been weighing you down, and preventing you from giving things a go. Who knows, you may find that you can go further than you thought you could. -- Shez
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A36 The key here is you said your 17th birthday, you haven't even developed your three lower functions yet, no wonder this is confusing, welcome to being a teenage nerd. Probably in a school that no one gets you. Time. -- Anonymous
A37 We will find peace together. -- Anonymous
A38 It has been my experience that ENFps and INFjs are quite skilled at getting at the root of who people are and what makes them tick - if you suspect that any close friends or family members are these types, you might ask them to describe you and see what you discover. Also, there are professional Socionists out there who will type you for a fee. If you haven't done so already, I recommend posting a picture and writing a description of yourself on a Socionics forum. See what the consensus is. -- Anonymous
A39 Enneagram type 4w3, probably sx instinct main. Read on it, you may find yourself somewhere out there. Also, you may not actually want to be an ENTj, one with such a disposition to life as yours (feeling vulnerable and not competent enough) would be a sorry sight. You seem to cope, even if you have trouble. Try and appreciate what you have - it will make you more harmonic as a person. -- Nordon /ENTj/
A40 @ Kring A7, my older brother is an intj/p and I am an enfp, he looked out for me all the time and he was the greatest brthoer ever, he is the person I love the most in the world, you know. Also, Grant, i think you're an intp/infj. I don't feel like explaining myself I just guessed from the way you write and what you write. -- Andre (enfp)
A41 Grant, A36 said it (albeit, a bit harshly). You're 17; you're not SUPPOSED to know yourself very well yet. Live as much as you can; minimize the navel gazing (self-enlightenment can edge into narcissistic obsession, esp if you're actually an xNTP); forgive yourself and others, and try to have some fun. By the way. I've been around a long time and I can say a few things with some confidence. One of them is that ENFP's are almost never pretentiouis, arrogant assholes. Those qualities are the antithesis of how ENFP's relate to others. -- Garry
A42 I like toast -- ENFP
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