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Question #1238604242Wednesday, 1-Apr-2009
Category: Intertype Relations ENFp Theory
I tend to always be uneasy with ENFps, and often end up hating them. For a while they seem like the biggest, most arrogant assholes on the planet, who don't know the meaning of the word humility. And then a realization creeps up on me, they are simply just smarter than me...INTjs, to you I'm sure they just look stupid or unfocused. To me(I don't know what I am), they seem like they don't try, it always seems to me like I have everything they have+humility, then I stop and think that maybe they are just smarter or that they are exactly like me but embrace what they are. Their ideas never seem conceptually very deep, but you find that they have reasons to validate these ideas, that "come from the heart", and I'm usually inclined to discredit that as total bull****, completely and absolutely pretentious. They don't seem to really understand their feelings, and I think I'm everything they are and more, so what authority could they possibly have over me... I don't know what type I am, but this is the kind of behavior a supervisee(or however you spell it), shows towards the supervisor isn't it(which ever one is the dominant one, ...S.visee or S.visor)? How could I be some stupid ISFJ? Or is it conflict behavior? How could I be some rigid, heartless, ISTJ? I saw this obscure thing on a socionics forum a long time ago that proposed this theory, seemed like it was pretty well thought out...I don't know how it explained itself but it suggested that highly intelligent members of a specific type often take on the traits of the the type they supervise. Thus you wind up with really intense personalities like say...ENFP-ISFJ, or INTJ-ENFPs, or INFP-ESFJS, or ISTJ-ESFPs, or ESFP-INFJs, ENFJ-INTPs(eureka?). These look possible for me if this theory makes any sense at all. Why would I be so at conflict with ENFps? Am I simply an ENFj? Because I don't want to think I'm an ISTj, they are too plain. Still ENFj? The actor? Sounds stupid, I mean I'm bold, but I'm also very shy. Plus Fe is painted out to be such a superficial function. Maybe that explains why I simply cannot understand myself, because Fe prevents me from digesting the notion of true emotional humility. Well, as usual, this got way longer than I wanted it to. Answer about the ENFPs, that was my initial question. Do they **** anyone else off in the same way I describe? Does this sound like a feeler semi-dual relation. And does that elitist sounding theory of highly intelligent people make any sense, do you think its possible that it isn't just empty elitism? God, this is all so esoteric, but I can't stop thinking about it. -- Grant
Your Answers: 1+ 13+ 21+ 27+ 33+ 43+
A27 "Because I want to actually and genuinely know what I'm good at and what I can be good at." Grant, this is something that you think someone else has to tell you? -- INTj ladie
A28 All types (and people in general) have their flaws, but the key to appreciating type theory is realizing that all people have unique gifts to contribute to life. -- ISFj
A29 Grant: if I have offended or upset you in some way, I apologize. I intended no offense, I was only trying to answer your questions using the information you provided. If it's any consolation, your responses have caused me to reconsider my assessment of your type. ISTj was my best guess at the time, but it was just that: a guess, not a firm conclusion. I think Shez's hypothesis of INFp in A21 is a much better one, and matches up with what you've written much more neatly (excellent work by the way, Shez!). The only thing I was really certain of in my initial assessment was that you value Ti over Te, as your description of Te as "exploitative" and Ti as "simple and innocent" could lead to no other conclusion. INFp, of course, has Ti as a valued Super-Id function. Your positive assessment of ENFjs still makes sense, as ENFj is the Mirror of INFp. Finally, your description in your last post here of your good relationship with an ESTp guy with whom you "pretty much clicked right away," would fit very well, as INFp and ESTp are Duals. I feel quite confident about this conclusion - I knew something about your posts seemed familiar, but I couldn't quite place it. My best friend growing up was an INFp, so seeing everything you've written in that light, I am much more sympathetic to your plight. -- Krig (INTj)
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A30 INTJ laddie, I can believe just about anything if I tell myself so just right, it really bugs me, I just often let my emotions run me so I can eventually figure them out maybe, I probably don't bother to evaluate that approach as a whole, as I need to stop evaluating somewhere and just exist. Whenever someone says something new, my entire identity could flip. It drives me crazy. I still don't know if I'm an INFP, but I certainly don't want to be an S just because I don't feel like I can fit in the shoes of a consistent dependable S. It really bugs me when people initially think I'm serious, and based on how I talk that I am somehow very logical, when really I'm just obsessed with myself, I'm often looking down on myself and don't even feel present. I'm horribly manipulative with my emotions though, and I try to tell myself its horrible but often I get away with it(meaning I don't feel too much remorse, the emotional kick doesn't always hit because unconscious mechanisms protect me) or convince myself it was justified in a variety of different ways. But I DO have good moments, and people do like me when I'm feeling good. I'm not very consistently bubbly either. I can't keep social efforts up, I'm definately an introvert, rest assured. For a long time I even thought I was an INTJ, but I'm not a well rounded braniac at all, though many people seem to think I articulate astutely. I'm always afraid of the label rigid or something, I think I am an extreme I, and that makes me really slow to adapt sometimes, even though I am good a shape shifter. But I have a good friend who might also be an INFP or an INTP, I can't tell, but he is so irrational and hard to get through to it drives me crazy, its like talking to a wall sometimes. I generally make a conscious effort to keep my wits about me, but he doesn't seem to care about that, things just bounce off him even though he is still really whiny and intense. I guess by that logic he's an INTP, he's always obsessed with trying to be in love with someone, and I struggle not to tell him that he sounds like a retard sometimes(not really, I'm gentle) with how emotionally stereotypical he seems. We both seem to feel burdened with the task of bringing each other back to reality. Still, what does a relationship with an ESTP female look like with an INFP. What are ESTP females like? I tend to have the most chemistry with NF girls that I can talk to for hours about obscure topics of interest. They must be INFPs, though I bet being a female, with all that white matter in their frontal lobes, they might be more well rounded and better able to handle themselves, and not slightly autistic-like like myself. I do have autistic tendancies. No problem Krigg, I don't know if my reaction was appropriate much at all, I couldn't figure it out for myself and thats when I get overwhelmed(as a child, when I didn't know why something was the way it was, I would almost uncontrollably throw a fit, and it might not have been important at all, I was just ****ed that my questions didn't get satisfying answers, answers weren't even what I probably needed, just solid reassurance. I have this theory that I was babied because I was so good at making myself a horrible victim and just allowed it to happen as my emotions took over, my S mother couldn't satisfy my curiosity and my INTP dad wouldn't play along if I was going to be on a roller coaster ride all the time). The only thing is, I don't have a freakin' clue what type I was complaining about in the initial message, I know I said ENFP, but I'm not sure. Actually, I think it might be, though there are other people I could categorize as ENFPs that I have great chemistry with. Perhaps they are ENTPs or ENFJs. There are these poetry nerds in my class that might be ENFPs or INFJs, that drive me berserk. One of them is really irrational and kind of hates me but I don't hate her back, just find her annoying sometimes(ENFP, I'll bet), another is totally full of it and will attack me whenever I try to playfully make fun of someone and is quite gifted with her writing but still manages to sound incredibly pretentious and still seems the same even though she tries new things. Then there is a boy who is much more effeminate than myself and quicker with his words, and he also initially seems to be in on the crowd, but surprisingly has sympathy for my annoyance with this girl(ENFJ maybe?, he seems a bit like an I). Well, whenever I get to the point where I want to dump socionics because it seems bunk, I finally go with what seem to be the "correct" obvious impressions, and think I ought to reconsider. Perhaps socionics is complete, maybe it isn't, but if it is, I'm sure there are even more satisfying theories out there. I don't know if I want to know, but I'm already stuck thinking this way, why not jump all the way in?... -- Grant
A31 What an entertaining read -- Enfp lass
A32 After a closer read of Grant's initial post...Yeah, i guess the A5 post wasn't directed towards me after all. I thought it was b/c of the 'pleasant little fellow' label, and i didn't think Grant's post gave the impression of a pleasant little fellow, whilst mine did. But all the stuff about humility - that was touched on in Grant's post not mine. I totally retract all those harsh things i said! I'm mortified. Please forgive me. Gosh, i better watch my mouth from now on. or rather, read more carefully. -- Shez
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