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Question #1238604242Wednesday, 1-Apr-2009
Category: Intertype Relations ENFp Theory
I tend to always be uneasy with ENFps, and often end up hating them. For a while they seem like the biggest, most arrogant assholes on the planet, who don't know the meaning of the word humility. And then a realization creeps up on me, they are simply just smarter than me...INTjs, to you I'm sure they just look stupid or unfocused. To me(I don't know what I am), they seem like they don't try, it always seems to me like I have everything they have+humility, then I stop and think that maybe they are just smarter or that they are exactly like me but embrace what they are. Their ideas never seem conceptually very deep, but you find that they have reasons to validate these ideas, that "come from the heart", and I'm usually inclined to discredit that as total bull****, completely and absolutely pretentious. They don't seem to really understand their feelings, and I think I'm everything they are and more, so what authority could they possibly have over me... I don't know what type I am, but this is the kind of behavior a supervisee(or however you spell it), shows towards the supervisor isn't it(which ever one is the dominant one, ...S.visee or S.visor)? How could I be some stupid ISFJ? Or is it conflict behavior? How could I be some rigid, heartless, ISTJ? I saw this obscure thing on a socionics forum a long time ago that proposed this theory, seemed like it was pretty well thought out...I don't know how it explained itself but it suggested that highly intelligent members of a specific type often take on the traits of the the type they supervise. Thus you wind up with really intense personalities like say...ENFP-ISFJ, or INTJ-ENFPs, or INFP-ESFJS, or ISTJ-ESFPs, or ESFP-INFJs, ENFJ-INTPs(eureka?). These look possible for me if this theory makes any sense at all. Why would I be so at conflict with ENFps? Am I simply an ENFj? Because I don't want to think I'm an ISTj, they are too plain. Still ENFj? The actor? Sounds stupid, I mean I'm bold, but I'm also very shy. Plus Fe is painted out to be such a superficial function. Maybe that explains why I simply cannot understand myself, because Fe prevents me from digesting the notion of true emotional humility. Well, as usual, this got way longer than I wanted it to. Answer about the ENFPs, that was my initial question. Do they **** anyone else off in the same way I describe? Does this sound like a feeler semi-dual relation. And does that elitist sounding theory of highly intelligent people make any sense, do you think its possible that it isn't just empty elitism? God, this is all so esoteric, but I can't stop thinking about it. -- Grant
Your Answers: 1+ 13+ 21+ 27+ 33+ 43+
A21 If you are honest (as you so claim) when you say that you're at the worst point in your life, and that you don't know if you want to go on, it might be a good idea to get professional help, i.e. see a counsellor. It is better to get help sooner than later. And you should know that the offensive 'A hole' post was directed at me, and not you. You've reacted pretty strongly to it. There was really no need! I think you may be an INFp - it's clear that you're very flighty, sensitive, indecisive, have very low self-esteem and most tellingly, put an excessive amount of significance on abstract notions. also, you've said that you lack practical intelligence, but value Te. you've also said that you think you are an ENTj based on the fact that you'd like to be an ENTj. not only does this show impaired Ti logical reasoning, but it is not uncommon for INFp's to want to be like ENTj's since ENTj's are their supervisor. and the way you describe ISFj's sounds like they're your benefactor (they don't appreciate you). your strained relations w ENFp's also makes sense in this framework. i doubt that you are an ESTj b/c your posts are very wordy and long, plus you seem unsure of yourself and you're evidently very pondersome. you do not seem at all like an ESTj in fact in what you say about yourself, and the way you say it. you seem to think intuitively, often describing things in terms of 'feels'. you seem to introspect a great deal, thus i would say you're an Introvert. you seem to have trouble controlling your emotions, pointing to F. and your indecisiveness and flightiness of thought indicates p. but you should know that whatever type you are, realize that it doesn't fully define you. there are many personality theories out there, many that are better empirically corroborated than socionics. personality is so complex, there isn't any one perfect theory, so don't put so much importance on this. Try to think of socionics as more of a tool that can help you get along with ppl, and develop personally, than as an absolute truth that pigeonholes you into a set of criteria. Take care, -- Shez
A22 To A10, 1) I do NOT think that I am better than 'ALL types', in fact I do not believe that ppl are fully defined by socionics type anyways 2) I did NOT mean any offence whatsoever. I was absolutely sincere in what I said (I do quite like INTj's and ISTj's, they're great ppl, and reliable unlike ENFp's), I was just jokingly overloading on Fe, something you obviously don't absorb very well, since you seemed to take so much issue w a flippant sarcastic comment. i realise it's your demonstrative functn, but personal differences aren't a reason to be a bitch. in fact i didn't realize ENFp's could be such bitches. you must be a really special bitchy subtype of ENFp yet undiscovered 3) i am not an ENTp. -- Shez
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A23 And another thing….To the ENFp of A10: You know what, at no point in my post did I state/imply/connote/insinuate/convey that I was humble (you seemed to have pulled that out of your head, or your arse, I’m not sure which). I simply expressed (albeit in an over the top Fe tone) that I really liken to individuals who have a certain thinking style. That is quite different from humility (having a modest estimation of one’s own importance). And even if I was being humble, that is not a bad thing, as you seem to think it is. Which really indicates a character flaw on your part. But well done, you’ve given me a fine example of ENFp inability to know or deduce what others are thinking, and propensity to make firm statements based on false knowledge. You should give yourself a pat on the back, as ppl of your type seem to enjoy doing on a frequent basis. -- Shez
A24 Shez, your assumption concerning the Subject of A10's post does not seem to be valid. -- INTj laddie
A25 A23: Wow, dude man...I'm pretty sure she was referring to the original poster. Your ego is getting all fired up over nothing. -- INFp guy
A26 Thank you shez, I don't know how honest I really am, I never quite do; not consciously anyways, its always the intention to be honest, but if I understand Ni right, it can really help you to believe what you are saying, my mom has always commented on a recurring trait in some members of her family; having loads of conviction that might not come from a factual basis at all. But I can assure you that I am very unhappy or I am not living the way one my age ought to live at all (since I don't believe I'm fixedly cynical; I can't be that consistent can I?), I can have good moments, but life could be so much better. I did miss my antidepressant meds for a few days and that might've made it worse, skipping doses can really not be a good thing. The validity of socionics is always something that’s always in the back of my mind, my reservations for you saying that it isn’t really that meaningful...I don't know, I can never finish my deductive processes (I guess that’s something I have a lot of trouble with, sounds relieving, haha); anyways, they might have to do with the fact that so many people seem to whole heartedly buy it and it still seems to work for them. I was into socionics and all the other Jungian based typing systems for a while (I even looked at enneagrams, it almost gets horoscopy), and this was in ninth grade, I had already been depressed and essentially desperate because I could not digest the notion of myself being autistic (I was informally and more formally diagnosed as “quite possibly”), it just didn't seem true (its not that I have a problem with it, its just that I don’t think I have it, I’m more socially aware than plenty of non autistic(“neurotypicals”, ha) people in many ways), there had to be another explanation for why I am the way I am. Learning about how the brain works, intelligence measurements, social psychology and typing systems, and ideally above all, my own observations and rulings; well, that’s what I was doing. I felt like I was fighting the intelligence measurement systems, a useless battle, I never even took a test anyways and I don't want to, I've already had professionally administered "congitive assessment". Okay, I thought I was going somewhere but I think I am pretty much just rambling now. The point is, that’s why I'm so obsessed and personality types are not all I'm stuck on. Because I want to actually and genuinely know what I'm good at and what I can be good at, I'm sick of feeling empty in what I know I can do, and my current environment does not encourage me to discover what I'm good at, or gives me a lot of friction. Public schools...schools… The only thing is...I don't completely understand what an ESTP is supposed to be like. My initial impression is that they are supposed to...I don't know...what type is supposed to tend to manifest as a jock or a daredevil, completely and totally blunt and sure of themselves; and on the surface, a bit dim witted. Is there a type would best accomodate this character? And I say it in this wordy way so I can avoid the suggestion of all members of this type being like this obviously. But, am I thinking of a negative stereotype of the ESTJ? What is an ESTP like, and how the hell would I get along with one? A current good friend of mine is completely and totally rowdy, hyperactive, and unpredictable…very physically and mentally quick, and total dare devil. I always thought he was an ENFP, though he is totally blunt and tactless, but he doesn’t care what other people think at all, and he is just too weird to be an ESTP. I used to have a good time with some athletic kids when I was younger, I worshipped this one guy, possibly an ESTP, who was extremely coordinated and though he was a leader, he still seemed to want to be around me. He initially might seem like a menace to nerdy people, but we pretty much clicked right away, I think he though I was one of the non-annoying nerds. Plus, I was pretty good at sports because I was coordinated enough, though sloppy, but very competitive and single minded, and being of a slender but not weak body type helped. A10 was targeted at you...umm, I'll take your word for it? I still don't get it, are you joking or being wierd or something? And also, I hope you know that although I have flawed reasoning skills, I joke about it, and I was purposefully showcasing it just to be "flippant" as you called it. -- Grant
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