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Question #1238604242Wednesday, 1-Apr-2009
Category: Intertype Relations ENFp Theory
I tend to always be uneasy with ENFps, and often end up hating them. For a while they seem like the biggest, most arrogant assholes on the planet, who don't know the meaning of the word humility. And then a realization creeps up on me, they are simply just smarter than me...INTjs, to you I'm sure they just look stupid or unfocused. To me(I don't know what I am), they seem like they don't try, it always seems to me like I have everything they have+humility, then I stop and think that maybe they are just smarter or that they are exactly like me but embrace what they are. Their ideas never seem conceptually very deep, but you find that they have reasons to validate these ideas, that "come from the heart", and I'm usually inclined to discredit that as total bull****, completely and absolutely pretentious. They don't seem to really understand their feelings, and I think I'm everything they are and more, so what authority could they possibly have over me... I don't know what type I am, but this is the kind of behavior a supervisee(or however you spell it), shows towards the supervisor isn't it(which ever one is the dominant one, ...S.visee or S.visor)? How could I be some stupid ISFJ? Or is it conflict behavior? How could I be some rigid, heartless, ISTJ? I saw this obscure thing on a socionics forum a long time ago that proposed this theory, seemed like it was pretty well thought out...I don't know how it explained itself but it suggested that highly intelligent members of a specific type often take on the traits of the the type they supervise. Thus you wind up with really intense personalities like say...ENFP-ISFJ, or INTJ-ENFPs, or INFP-ESFJS, or ISTJ-ESFPs, or ESFP-INFJs, ENFJ-INTPs(eureka?). These look possible for me if this theory makes any sense at all. Why would I be so at conflict with ENFps? Am I simply an ENFj? Because I don't want to think I'm an ISTj, they are too plain. Still ENFj? The actor? Sounds stupid, I mean I'm bold, but I'm also very shy. Plus Fe is painted out to be such a superficial function. Maybe that explains why I simply cannot understand myself, because Fe prevents me from digesting the notion of true emotional humility. Well, as usual, this got way longer than I wanted it to. Answer about the ENFPs, that was my initial question. Do they **** anyone else off in the same way I describe? Does this sound like a feeler semi-dual relation. And does that elitist sounding theory of highly intelligent people make any sense, do you think its possible that it isn't just empty elitism? God, this is all so esoteric, but I can't stop thinking about it. -- Grant
Your Answers: 1+ 13+ 21+ 27+ 33+ 43+
A1 I have no freaking idea what you exactly are, but I'm pretty sure you're a J. Why don't you just take a test? -- Anonymous
A2 And I have taken the test; the long one I took fully over a year ago, either INTJ or INTP. But INTJ, that seems so generic, if I'm an INTJ. Perhaps I have an underdeveloped intuition. My first score ever was ISTJ on a simple MBTI, but I was disgusted with the description...I'm not boring. Do I sound like an INTJ? -- Anonymous
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A3 Buddy, take a few breaths, smell a few roses, and think on it. You're the only person who can determine the personality mold within which you fit best. -- INTj laddie
A4 I love ENFp's. -- an ISTp
A5 ISTj for sure. -- Anonymous
A6 Having carefully examined your writings here and elsewhere, Grant, my best guess as to your type is ISTj. Your primary impression of ENFps as being arrogant and lacking in humility suggests to me that you do not value Ne, the ENFp's primary function. That you seem threatened by the ENFp, rather than simply dismissing them as silly or wrong, suggests to me that your Ne is not only unvalued, but weak (meaning that Ne would be a Super-Ego function for you), especially given your suspicion that ENFps may be "simply just smarter than me", and your use of "esoteric" as a pejorative. Ne as a Super-Ego function would of course imply that you have Se as an Ego function. Furthermore, your apparent inability to wrap your mind around the more abstract elements of Socionics (resulting in your inability to determine your own type) strongly suggests S. Your statement that ENFps are not just "stupid or unfocused" but that they "seem like they don't try", indicates to me that you are decidedly Judging rather than Perceiving. Your feeling that ENFp ideas don't seem conceptually deep, your scorn for things that "come from the heart", your scorn for ISFjs as being "stupid", and your contention that ENFps lack understanding of their feelings, all indicate to me strong valued Ti, and weak unvalued Fi. Ti especially is concerned with "understanding" everything, even emotions. Your description in another post of Te as "exploitative" and Ti as "simple and innocent" strongly cements for me the conclusion that you are some kind of Ti type. Put all of that together, and you get ISTj. Your only complaint about ISTjs was that they are "rigid", "plain", and "heartless", but this is a common misconception. ISTjs, like INTjs, may sometimes appear rigid or heartless to outsiders, but underneath they have very strong emotions. It's just that they're able to control them. And finally, the fact that the only type you spoke favourably of was ENFj (they're "bold"), which is the ISTj's dual, that ties the whole thing up in a nice bow, in my mind. If I had to bet money, I would say you're an ISTj. -- Krig (INTj)
A7 As for my opinion of ENFps, as an INTj I find them to be a little flighty and unreliable, but otherwise fun to be around. There is a great deal of common ground, due to sharing a strong and valued Ne. I feel like a "big brother", looking out for his younger sibling. This is clearly not the relationship you described. -- Krig (INTj)
A8 Your rigid (stereo)typing brought both a smile and a frown to my face. May you find some peace. -- INFp guy
A9 Nice analysis Krig! Very thorough. In Sex and the City there is an example of how an INTj-ENFp relationship could be functional and warm - Miranda and Carrie. 'rigid', 'plain' and 'heartless' are merely superficial observations of a personality type (the ISTj) that, like the INTj, is often genuinely well-meaning and benevolent, and more importantly, RELIABLE! It seems to me that ISTj and INTj are amongst the more misunderstood, misinterpretted types on the socionics spectrum.....so i just wanna send some love to all the ISTj's n INTj's out there. xoxoxoxoxo ~Shez -- Anonymous
A10 Well hellooooo there you pleasant little fellow! there just might be a 17th type everyone- *drum rolllllllllllllllll* The A-hole type. Who thinks theyre better than ALL the types and STILL think they have humility. On a happier note though, you might be an ENTp; they have comparative relation with ENFps. ENFps and ENTps tend to secretly think they're better than each other. And you've got the offending tone down pretty well. -- ENFp
A11 You seem to search for stereotypes more than understanding human mind in Socionics. This is exactly Socionics shouldnt be used for. How can you write something like "some stupid ISFj"? There are definitely some ISFjs on this site that might feel pretty offended by this. Intelligence doesnt depend on type at all. And Fe is just a certain way of processing and presenting information and decisions regarding people, ethics and emotions, and it neednt be shallow at all. Socionics is much more complicated than you seem to think. -- Ezis (ESFp)
A12 Shoot, apparently sarcasm can't be expressed well on the internet. I arrogantly use harsh irony in attempt to quickly spit out the rawness of my initial impressions, they are EXAGGERATED. I thought they would be humorous... You guys, I went out on a limb here, and I am more complicated than you seem to think. I have already gone through and no one ever tells me anything new, though I frequently am reminded of facts I have forgotten. I am NOT rigid. I am sarcastic, blunt, and actually, a very wimpy and nice person, who is sadly and constantly trying to prove he can be cool to people. I hope you see this. It is just a THEORY, that you are all too serious about socionics. Someone also wrote a comment that said I lacked the ability to wrap my mind around socionics. I don't know if this is true or not, but I think I get it, I just don't trust it, because I am not a rapid surface learner, I am a "slow thoughtful processor" as my parents frequently reasure me. I "get it", then I second guess because it doesn't seem to work, if anything I have terrible ADD and am too impatient. But it is a huge insecurity of mine to be told I lack abstract thought(originality is what I strive for), because I am a rebel at heart and I am quite creative. I am also only 17, I'm young, and I feel like Socionics gave me a way to understand my miserable self, that ultimately failed because I could not decide on a type. I feel like I am a thinker and it is insincere of a thinker to not be the way he/she is and just say what they think. I don't even know if I was referring to ENFPs. If I'm an ISTJ, why would it bug me so much. Apparently I am that 17th type, I am extremely arrogant, and terribly ashamed of it in attempt to minimize it as much as possible. I realize this is not healthy, but I am incapable of consistent effort, and I am incapable of trying, I'm failing at school, I'm failing at life, and but if I just listened to everyone else about how much I suck, I wouldn't even be alive. I don't know what to say...does it further my arrogance to say that I think that while you are right, you don't know what you are talking about in this case, it is highly arrogant of you to lay judgement upon me. And really, I don't despise people, I have a good heart; I stupidly tried to look comically cynical to spit out my views as fast as possbile. Some of you ought to consider the abuse that people like myself take from myself, I don't know why it happens, it just does, it doesn't feel like I can control it at times. Why the hell did I have to offer context to anyone anyways? Plus I see right through you, if I am in fact an ISTJ, why should I not be angry, I am not respected for my viewpoints without conforming horribly. If I accept I am an S, I am through and through incapable of grasping things. I am supposed to have other strengths, when really they have little power in arena's where they deserve it. I apologize if I offended you, but it is in very very heavy defense, that individuals like you have brought upon me, because of how I was born, I am a very curious person, I like to study things, I also like humor, and I am also apparently really really stupid and incapable of doing what I really want to do...because I can't think fast...this is why now my seventeenth birthday that has passed recently, I don't know if I want to go on... -- Anonymous
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