| Questions & Answers |
| Question #1213351491 | Friday, 13-Jun-2008 |
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Why do INTJs and ESTPs tend to be so attracted to each other and yet most often cannot make a relationship work? I (and ESTP) have never been more attracted to a type than I am to INTJs, but not one of those relationships turned into something serious. Most often, I found myself in long, drawn-out, frustrating situations where one person would put effort into the relationship, the other would give up on the relationship and then we would switch roles - never being on the same page at the same time. Can you explain this phenomenon? And if so, why are ESTPs so attracted to INTJs if they are so different? -A Confused and Tired ESTP  -- Meg |
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| A1 Never heard of such nonsense, maybe this is because I'm INTJ and have never been attracted to ESTP in my life? -- Anonymous |
| A2 Well, let's assume that you're ESTp (just in the interest of being scientific, consider the small chance that you are not). Could some of the people you thought were INTj be INFp or some other INxx type? With the supervisor-supervisee relationship switching roles probably would not happen often, but I haven't really studied that type relation in depth. Anyone have a guess as to which type relation would "switch roles" as the question describes? -- econdude |
| A3 It is my opinion that this problem is more in the realm of anima animus duality instead of personality types. -- aneeley |
| A4 It's cliche but I can't help it: opposites attract. Note the word ATTRACT. That says nothing about anything beyond the attraction, and that's why there's such a big problem most of the time. People assume that attraction means more than attraction - it doesn't. Attraction means attraction. But to actually co-exist with someone requires more than attraction, it requires mutual surrender and opposite types simply cannot DO that without committing a kind of personality suicide. They can fake it for a while - and even delude themselves for a while - but time exposes all. I find that oppositional type relationships that last more than a few months are usually held together by social forces outside the relationship itself: marriage, expectations of families/friends, other things that are not actually related to the relationship at all and, if they were to disappear, would erode the relationship almost instantly. -- Anonymous |
| A5 In response to Econdude: There is a good chance that I can be an ENTP at times (my scores put me at a weak "S") and could explain part of the reason why I'm attracted to INTJs, but it seems that most often my ESTP throws a wrench in the situations. I feel like my borderline "N" and "S" work against each other. Is this common? Could this explain why these ESTP and INTJ relationships don't work out for me? -- meg |
| A6 Tell me Meg, what would you say attracts you to the INTj? And for you how do you view them and the attraction once you have known them for a bit? -- Anonymous |
| A7 A5 - what you described in the original question sounds more like mirror relations, or at least moreso than relations of supervision. I bet I could tell you right away if you're ESTp or ENTp just by looking at your picture. Often wondering about your type or raising issues such as the one you did imples the 'N' preference. You must be ESTp, ENTp, or some other type altogether. -- econdude |
| A8 To answer a few questions, I'd say that I tend to be drawn to quiet or reserved personalities that have a mysterious air about them. I like finding out new things as I get to know them and I'm almost always surprised by what I discover and the way they think. And in a mirror relationship, is there any chance that a relationship with an INTJ or an INTP could ever pan out or are they destined for misunderstandings? -- meg |
| A9 Ugh, I'm wondering this myself. Sucks to us. -- Anonymous |
| A10 lols yeah I agree with A9 -- Anonymous |
| A11 A8 - at least in my experience, the mirror is a friendly relationship but tends to be superficial. I like the person, but we're never huge friends. But, it's much more productive and fun than say, the quasi-identical relations - and with quasi-identical realtions it doesn't matter if myself and the other person are both 'T'! -- econdude |
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| A12 I am a INTJ and for the first time shared a relationship with an ESTP a year ago. We were attracted to each other. Our MBTI differences are the reasons we did not last. He was late all the time and I became stickler for time managing. He was unwilling & unable to discuss politics, history and movie characters. I showed off my debating skills and outwardly commented on his I.Q. He offered his friends mini-parties and beer over the weekend. I asked whether he would continue doing this if we got married. The more he ESTPed the more I INTJed. Once I read outloud an article from a Newsweek magazine that I brought from home about the militia violence in the Congo and he said, "Well, I'm only interested in the here and now"! Have any of you experience these behaviors from an ESTP? What specifically did you do to gain an even balance? -- Anonymous |
| A13 I asked the question originally, and I am a week ESTP, almost merging into the ENTP rhelm so I think I'm not the best example of an uber ESTP, but I definitely have the here and now tendencies. I like action, no doubt about that. I'd rather do than think too much about doing and then never get around to actually doing, but I also enjoy talking about politics, often turning into rewarding discussions, and love history. I am, though, very often late for things, but that is a typical trait for any "P" for the most part. Js always seem to have problems with Ps poor time management skills, but everyone has their quirks. I think it sounds like that particular ESTP needs some depth and maturity before he can commit to a real relationship. I don't think this applies to all ESTPs, but that one in particular seems to be a bit immature. I would say choose your battles and if poor time management is the worst trait they have, that isn't too bad. But I have a feeling that your issue lay in the ESTP's lack of insight and depth and that frustration reached a peak with time management. Best of luck. -- Meg |
| A14 intj male who loves an estp here. . . I do get frustrated with time issues, but that is a small thing. My main fear is I am so ordered and she is not. Disorder on a regular basis drives me nuts. . . but I love how she makes life fun. We are both fairly smart, but her feelings are hard to get to, as are mine. It is as if we both devalue feelings, our own and one others. We have a hard time being sinsitive at the right time. This seems to mean physical affection is more important. I guess I may sound like I have answers, but I am clueless too. lol -- Anonymous |
| A15 INTj's and ESTp's....Supervision relation...so they'll always feel like they're competing with each other, rather than co-operating and supplementing each other...i honestly don't know, as i'm neither type. but that supposition is just based on socionics inter-type relations theory. i think A14's comment that 'It is as if we both devalue feelings, our own and one others [sic]. We have a hard time being sinsitive [sic] at the right time' is very telling... -- Shez |
| A16 I think the attraction is mostly one sided - INTj to ESTp. I have been attracted to the knowledge detail that the ESTp easily recalls and applies. I could propose a general concept, and the ESTp could quickly tell me whether the resources were available to realize a product from it. ESTp can facilitate shortcuts. Although they have superior knowledge detail than I, they ignore consequence and complete little, which annoys me to no end. They find me cold and are not usually interested in my forward-looking, sometimes theoretical perspective, and resent my drive to perfect things. This never bothers me because I find them useful. I have supervised many of them in a work situation - like trying to herd cats. -- I/O |
| A17 I am an INTJ and am highly attracted to ESTP's. Best conversation and Sex I have ever had. Then we just quit. Still attracted to each other. Just nothing left to pursue. Guess I won the competition except that I lost the girl. =( -- Anonymous |
| A18 I'm an ESTP and really attractive to an INTJ guy. We are so different but I like him anyway. I usually get things my way but I can't with him. I still need to ask for it. He is highly intellectual and I'm actually impressed with it. I recognize his attitude to be "confidence" and not merely arrogance. I read as though he's just sure of what he wants. I mostly do all the invitations with him and we were dating just fine. He keeps on asking what "we are", but I do not have the answer. I told him to just things flow and open. I'm not actually the commitment type of girl and I told him that. The problem is he keeps on coming back to the "what we are question" and I have no answer. I'm not sure if he'll want commitment if that's what I answered, or he'll fly away if I say I have no plans for commitment. Idk what to do with him. I've been asking him out again and he's not even replying. Should I stop this? :/ -- France |
| A19 I'm an ESTP and really attractive to an INTJ guy. We are so different but I like him anyway. I usually get things my way but I can't with him. I still need to ask for it. He is highly intellectual and I'm actually impressed with it. I recognize his attitude to be "confidence" and not merely arrogance. I read as though he's just sure of what he wants. I mostly do all the invitations with him and we were dating just fine. He keeps on asking what "we are", but I do not have the answer. I told him to just things flow and open. I'm not actually the commitment type of girl and I told him that. The problem is he keeps on coming back to the "what we are question" and I have no answer. I'm not sure if he'll want commitment if that's what I answered, or he'll fly away if I say I have no plans for commitment. Idk what to do with him. I've been asking him out again and he's not even replying. Should I stop this? :/ -- France |
| A20 To A19: Us INTJs are calculated and tend to avoid emotional risk. I recently broke up with an ESTP because he was very timid to commitment. Although it pained me to do it I decided that i had to stop investing more energy, emotion and time before I get deeper into whatever we were and finally get hurt. I am guessing your INTJ is doing/thinking of doing the same thing.... -- Anonymous |
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