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Question #1213115778Tuesday, 10-Jun-2008
Category: ESTp Stereotype
Why are ESTps such compulsive liars? I'm serious - this isn't a loaded question. I would authentically like to know this, and the mechanism/motivation behind it. In fact, if you're an ESTp and are willing to go into the ESTp Witness Protection Program and share what the hell is behind this incessant need to lie - about anything; even stupid, meaningless things - then please do so. You may be destroyed by angry ESTps, but you will have sacraficed yourself in advance of greater personality type understanding. A small price to pay. -- jason
Your Answers: 1+ 22+ 42+
A1 Are you talking about ESTps in the business world? In a certain country? I have read about a Native American Indian tribe in history that did not have a word for lying because it was unheard of. But certainly some people in the tribe were ESTps. I think your frustration might be rooted in the fact that sociologically a lot of people have incentives to lie and you might be noticing or be good at identifying ESTps who lie. I can name people of other types - ESFj and ESFp for starters - who do exactly what you describe. What do I do about it? Stay as far away from them as possible - and of course, loudly let all of my friends or coworkers know that they lie their heads off before I leave. -- econdude
A2 Many ESTps and ENTps care a lot what other people think about them so they'll lie if they think it will make someone like them more. To an ESTp the ends always justify the means. So if lying will bring sex or popularity, they will lie. Sometimes they will lie about meaningless things just to test people's limits and see what they can get away with lying about. That way they will be more skilled at lying when it's time to get people of the opposite sex to have sex with them by lying to them. -- Anonymous
A3 I have a theory that ESTPs are rather free individuals possessing mainly one skill: "technique" rather than "empathy". Meaning their main interest is to ARRANGE things, with a lesser concern with respect to how how it affects other persons. And what better way to divert others than by feeding false information. I'm ESFP. -- MLH
A4 A1: "stay as far away from ESTPs as possible" is good advice - sad, but good. I find the unhealthy ones (which seems to be most of them that I come across - maybe I attract them; I'm an INFj) are not even strategic in their lying; they are tactical. This goes to A2's point that ESTps lie to get people to like them - yes, that seems true in my experience as well, but that..."window of being liked" (for lack of a better term; this is hard to articulate) seems, for ESTPs, so utterly limited to the immediate situation. So if you sustain any kind of relationship (business, social, whatever) with them and just pay attention to what they do, it becomes glaringly and even embarassingly blatant that they either have no interest at all in telling the truth, or possibly (and this is where my intuition stops and I'm clueless, but open-minded if someone other there wants to add stuff), the ESTp, in his or her own mind, has some reference to 'the truth' that is really...very ESTpish. As if, for example, saying white is black on Monday and then black is white on Tuesday isn't, to an ESTp, a lie at all - because it's only a lie when you 'lose' or something. In other words, maybe the very idea of a lie is profoundly different for an ESTp than it would be for me or for non ESTps. Still, though, they're usually assholes. -- jason
A5 A5 - please refer back to my original posting. The "stay as far away from ESTPs as possible" quote is part of your posting, not mine. ESTps need to be in their element just like everyone else. Lying all the time is not acceptable, but, as I thought I specified in my reply, other types - and all the types - can lie, even compulsively, so I thought it was unfair to single out ESTps. -- econdude
A6 Ah, the veiled arrogance of an INTj in print. Nothing beats it So I misquoted - I still think it's true. Focus on the point. -- Anonymous
A7 A6 - I think you misunderstand the ESTp temperament. It seems like you don't think much of INTjs either. What might your type be? I am honestly a bit disturbed by your attitudes towards the different types, perhaps you should focus on something besides socionics? -- econdude
A8 :) I love it when INTjs think that by injecting "please" and "perhaps" in their elitest, angry lectures that this somehow makes it okay. Don't worry, I know it's a defense mechanism so I won't probe further. As for my type, isn't it obvious? I'm an INFj who doesn't mind conflict - and I have no intention of "focusing on something besides socionics" - why should I? Am I scaring you? -- Anonymous
A9 i think ENTP's are the ones who lie the most and arent necasarily good at it...but get people to pretend like they believe the lie...if that makes sense -- Anonymous
A10 A8 - it sounds like conflict bothers you. Your type is not obvious. And now that you raise the issue, you are scaring me a bit. Do you look like Avril Lavigne? -- econdude
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A11 I suspect intelligent ESTp's won't lie about most things unless it's for sheer entertainment value, and provided it makes them more attractive to their listeners. ESTp's understand that lying will seriously impact ability to manipulate situations downstream due to lack of credibility. I suspect that exaggeration and circumlocution are probably better identifying traits. I do not believe that compulsive lying is specific to any personality type. -- Anonymous
A12 to an estp the ends justify the means. -- oo ro
A13 This is a popular question to answer, it seems. I am an ESTP. I do lie, but I make it a point to never, ever lie on purpose or to intentionally mislead. I have a tendency to be so honest it hurts peoples feelings, but I would rather tell the truth, than not. My philosophy is to either tell them to truth or don't say anything. The only times I lie are out of courtesy ("Do I look fat?") or when I'm telling a story and I can't remember the specific details. Sometimes I'm caught, but most of the time if they don't catch me, I figure it takes too much effort to correct a minor lie that had no impact on the story. For instance, if I was telling a story about how many birds "went" on my car, I'd embellish if I wasn't sure. All harmless. -- esteeper
A14 A13: Your very...position that you "lie, but not on purpose" - the very fact that you can comprehend that there IS such a thing as "lying, but not on purpose" is so utterly insightful that I honestly think it is the most valuable thing in your entire response. Do you really believe that you can lie "not on purpose"? I mean, is that actually a CATEGORY of belief for you? That there is the truth, a deliberate lie, and then some...new category called "lying but not on purpose"? To me, you've summed up - perhaps accidentally - ESTP lying in a nutshell - the belief that there are "no-lie" lies. I'll even go a step further and suggest that since you don't consider these "no-lie" lies to be lies at all, that you do it far, far, FAR more than you realize - like dozens of times a day. How would you even know? It's not a lie to you, right? -- Anonymous
A15 jason, I gotta say your post made me laugh today! As an INFj myself, ESTp's seem attracted to me too. And that compulsive lie, over anything-it's almost comical once you figure them out! And that's how I handle it-don't believe what comes out of their mouth...and privately giggle about it-poor soul. It's so very sad for them. They are probably attracted to us because they sense our empathy for something they do not have control over...we know they are a holes-but dang, we love all people don't we? Are we not the ones who want everyone to just get along-despite their faults?I find the unhealthier they are, of course, the worse it is. According to Oldham's personality styles, ESTp's would gear toward Narcissitic Personality Disorder-a disorder which includes compulsive lies in the diagnostic criterea. To say all ESTp are liars would be unfair-but I believe they are quite prone to it. I once dated an ESTp who told me he lied to me so I would not get mad at HIM-not because the truth would hurt MY feelings-it was all about HIM...the narcissism. -- aj
A16 In response to A15: I've noticed a common trait with many INXJs; they take themselves too seriously. If you are that concerned with exagerations that do nothing to discredit the speaker, then you've got a problem on your end, not the speakers end. Everyone lies once and a while, it's part of living and coexisting in society and if you have a problem with someone telling you that they ran 10 miles when they actually rant 9.7 miles, then I think you need to lighten up. Maybe you should start sociolizing with someone else because you take yourself too seriously for an ESTP. -- esteeper
A17 This question is ridiculous. "Why are ESTps such compulsive liars?" Compulsive lying is not an exclusive domain of any type. I have run across the following types (very sure of their types) who lie compulsively: ESFj, ESFp, ISTj to some extent, ENTp to some extent, and probably others that I cannot think of, and furthermore, I cannot think of an ESTp that I've run across who is a 'compulsive liar'. The person who asked the question is apparently unable to get along with their opposite type, which suggest major immaturity in the questioner. -- econdude
A18 Right on, Econdude. -- esteeper
A19 i was in a brief relationship with an estp. i'm an infp. supposedly they are my dual, but i don't see the compatibility. i think as the attraction was the estp knew he could not "fool" me, but at the same time, i always gave him the benefit of the doubt like i do for everyone. the problem is i went way beyond hat he deserved until we were pretty fed up with each other.i honestly don't know why i was attracted to him, except that he was easy to talk to, although most conversation was extremely pointless and superficial. in the end he thought i was a super-serious and dramatic kill-joy. i thought he had no shred of integrity, and found him rather exasperating. he did tend to lie though, for sure. i think estps tend to be missing a moral compass at times. -- Anonymous
A20 I recommend you view ESTps as not necessarily subscribing to the idea that language is a medium for making true statements. It's making an impression, causing an effect, testing you out or sizing you up, something like that? If you need to hear truth and still want to communicate with them, find another way. -- Wirefan, ENTj
A21 A11 Has it. It's done for entertainment because lying about important things will make you untrustworthy. Besides that, because we can. I prefer not to lie because i know i can fool people so easily, it takes the fun out of it. -- Anonymous
*Please note that the opinions expressed are not necessarily those of socionics.com*
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