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| Question #1212351870 | Sunday, 1-Jun-2008 |
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I'm an ENFP female with an INTJ boyfriend. MBTI says that we are each other's Pedagogues, & socionics says that we represent Relations of Supervision. I agree with both: I agree with MBTI, because I try to teach him exuberance & graciousness & to show him the good in everything, & he teaches me about balance & acceptance & shows me a rational side to everything. We try to help each other improve our individual beings, but it's kind of a game, because if we completely succeeded, we would be "curing" what we are most attracted to each other by, & I am damn attracted to everything in him that is different from me. Socionics explains a dark side to our relationship, however. I never feel like the Supervisor, but instead feel like he is babying me, which agitates me a lot of the time as I try to assert my competence, intelligance, & independence, but fail to ever get the upper-hand on him. When I "win," I know it's because he let me win. I guess my questions are... Why does MBTI say that we are the ideal match, while socionics says we are pretty much the worst match? How did they reach those conclusions?? Anything else concerning our relationship, or relationships in general, would be greatly appreciated to know. INTJs, please declare yourselves, as I am most interested in what you think about ENFPs. I know a great lot of this is just theory, but... yeah.  Help? -- reina (ENFP) |
Your Answers: 1+ |
| A1 ENFP I call The Dreamer. That's you. INTJ I call the Priest. That's him. Dreamer and Priest. Hmm. All you have in common would be Idealism. I agree with Socionics that the best match is when you have nothing in common except Perception/ Judging. P/J is the main thing factor IMO. It enable collaboration. Having the rest different make for interesting times without destroying the foundation. If you're a person who says 'That's OK' a lot and he is a person that says RIGHT or WRONG a lot, I can see why it feels you never have the upper hand. Please realize some people make up for incompetence by means of strength of personality. BTW I'm ESFP. -- MLH |
| A2 However similar MBTI and Socionics may seem at first sight, they are different. It is very probable that in Socionics, you are different types. For example, some MBTI INTJs are INTps in Socionics. I come out as an ENFp in MBTI. And you are right that a great lot of this is just theory - IMHO, it is crucial that you more or less get along with your boyfriend, and what the theories have to say is not that important. -- ESFp |
| A3 Same as the above statement, MBTI and socionics are very different. I'm an INFP in MBTI. When I started reading about socionics, it took me half a week of nonstop reading and ruminating to settle on a conclusion: take the test this site offers. Take it from me; you can read four different profiles in socionics and think they all match, when in reality you just do not want to accept who you really are.Also as the above statement, if you really like him, why rock the boat? If you still want to know your types, the dichotomies as they are called in socionics differ from those in MBTI. The most helpful ones (to me) were: for E/I, if he or you fidgets (E) or can sit still for long periods of time (I) & if you or him have either the same level of energy all day (I) or differing lvls of energy (E). For the other categories, you can go to wikisocion.org, they have a good, if incomplete collection of differences between dichotomies. Use the Reinin dichotomies too, they can be of great help. -- Anonymous |
| A4 First of all, you are the supervisee, which would explain this issue. Second, INTJs are not going to enter in an argument they might lose, they would internally process it first. You being extroverted and coming out with your partially formed idea is going to be met with criticism. On the other hand, you will probably minimize his feeling awkward for his mistakes (emotionally that is) feeling bad if you ever really 'one upped' him emotionally. This can be hard b/c he has the thick skin, but you need the thick skin. I would suggest either: trying to forget about your ego (who cares if he one ups you) or occasionally criticize him when you think he is wrong. Or, you could just ask him the question you are asking us instead, try being honest, ENFPs should be good at that. Also, try and take his advice as help, and not hurt. He isn't trying to baby you, but he is probably aware of how verbally adept you are and tries hard to word things properly. If you take the pressure of him, it is likely you will feel less to. -- Anonymous |
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| A5 If you are ENFP and INTJ according to MBTI, you aren't necessarily the same types according to Socionics! INTJ (MBTI) are often INTp (Socionics) but not always. Even as an ENFP (MBTI) you can have another Socionics type. So try to find your Socionics types. Personally I find MBTI relations theory particularly useless while Socionics one works most of the times. -- Piccolo_Michel |
| A6 INTJ- Supervisor ENFP- Supervisee -- Intj Anonymous |
| A7 INTJ may "win" most of the time when the ENFP is not an experienced debater. However. I am an ENFP with many INTJ's in my life, and to say the least, while INTJ may "seem" impossible to beat in an argument. You simply have to be willing to extend your realm of argument beyond what is natural to either of you. It honestly takes ferocious tenacity and intellectual preparation to argue with any of the more intense thinking types, INTJ's are good examples. But don't be fooled by their cockiness. INTJ's while seemingly awkward and even nerdy to some, are inside, very confident people because in their minds, they have already come to the most "Logical" conclusion. Thus, giving them all they need (support wise) to make an argument out of anything. What you have to be able to do, is utterly destroy their foundation (for lack of better terminology). Honestly, it takes an ENFP a long time to develop their natural analytical reason and logical capabilities in such a way so as to actually vocalize it with support. It isn't that ENFP isn't an intellectual type, they are very intellectual, however, we gather information intuitively (as I'm sure you know) and (usually) have very spot on extrapolations and instincts. INTJ is simply very good at vocalizing their thought process. ENFP contrarily has the set back of actually having to "talk about it" to understand "it". This isn't a bad thing, but, it boils down to this, it is natural that the INTJ would not really respect ENFP, simply because in many ways the ENFP and INTJ are the Antithesis of each others thought processes. They clash, and in an academic sense, has the natural predisposition of being the more capable debater. However, this does not mean that you cannot learn to earn your INTJ's respect. By learning to debate on the INTJ's level, you can begin to earn more of his respect (in the way it counts to us ENFP's), however, conversely, and realistically, if your INTJ boyfriend cannot learn to realize that you require genuine respect and honor for who you are regardless, then maybe he needs to reevaluate how much he truly values you as a person. Because I don't care who you are, if you cannot respect someone in all they ways it counts the most, then you do not truly respect. Superficial respect, is one of the most disrespectful things on the planet, and that is universal for everyone. -- Marty/ENFP |
| *Please note that the opinions expressed are not necessarily those of socionics.com* |
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