| Socionics Personals |  | Female
Straight
16-25
Oceania
Libra
ENFj |
|  | Male
Straight
16-25
Middle East
Sagittarius
INTj |
|  | Male
Straight
26-35
North America
Pisces
INXj |
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| Questions & Answers |
| Question #1194217660 | Sunday, 4-Nov-2007 |
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| For all the ISTP out there, I want to know what makes you guys hate an ENFJ naturaly. -- ENFJ |
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| A52 I find your response very helpful and thank you for your time. I've done all of the things you wrote about ignoring and staying away from them to avoid conflict. However,keep in mind that its not that I dislike them but I tend to want to approach people that I have common interest with or people that I can easily understand. I like to have a positive and peaceful environment, although I'm not threatened by conflict. From personal experience they tend to take words that to me is objective as maybe personal attack. I'm the type that lives in my head and not in tune with my environment or others around me, if that make sense. I may look angry and looking at someone but in reality I'm just too intensely concentrated on my thought. Also, they tend to send mix messages where they approach you in friendly manner,then ignore you after but want something from you. I find their approach either insulting or confusing. If I approach, its like their judging, internally mocking me or looking down on me.If they're the ones that approach and I mind my own business, then they tend to run after me and impose their venditta along with others. I never understood such behavior and I find it confusing. The more they get ticked off and the more I try to avoid because I find their response disrespectful and negative. To me it just doesn't make sense. I would conclude that they're just a very negative person with lots of insecurities. If you don't mind me asking,(then I'll answer your question) why is it offensive to enfjs if someone just want to mind their own business and keep to themselves. I must admit that when they initially approach, I tend to freak out and froze internally. It just happen since I can't read their motivation or find their action confusing. -- istp |
| A53 minding their business and keeping to themselves is fine...it's just if it happens after unresolved conflict...this behavior appears to the enfj as intentional hurting. an enfj can take conflict or anger etc but neglect is worse ...as the enfj spends their whole lives caring about other people's needs and suppressing themselves and their own needs etc. at their own expense...trying to understand and give people what they may want...so...when someone does not attempt to understand or approach the topic ...it hurts especially cause enfjs are generally overextended...thus insecurities start to flair up in silence...and non response...otherwise they are very positive people and idealistic and over enthusiastic and idealistic...but since they are so out there, with no psychological defenses from other people's inner worlds ..they just need a little re-assurance when insecurities or conflict flairs up. enfjs keep neglecting their own internal states to look after other people's and if they are suspected or their motives are suspected that is really offensive and hurtful as they pride themselves on altruism. if they ask for something...it is a big deal for them cause they do not like to ask for what they want... it also hurts too as enfjs give huge benefit of doubt to others to almost crazy hypotheses. for e.g. when my istp did not respond to disclosure of feelings for months i assumed it meant they cared so much they did not know what to say back...the most generous explanation one can think of...but then over time if insensitive comments come up...it starts to tear away at enfj's pedestal created for istp...which they defend with their lives by creating more opportunities for istp to affirm they did not mean something bad... for my istp friend for e.g. i never took the ignoring personally just thought they were busy...but then...when things got confused and they didn't understand and ran off it hurt so much...it felt like they did not value me...as 5 minutes or an hour of conversation of uncomfort for them was not worth my happiness or at least need to resolve things amicably to move forward or on. not getting a sign hurts, the things you are saying are helpful to me as i feel my friend has nothing against me personally and my accusations probably made them feel insulted or confused or judged too. even when an enfj says something negative or judgmental i don't they think they mean it. it is just to get a rise out of the other person to get them to atleast tell you your wrong. by accusing i hoped my istp would atleast say i was wrong and that would help fix the misunderstanding. cause i thought istps were honest and truthful and straightforward but silence is bad at least when enfj is trying so hard to fix or come up some alternative hypothesis that sweeps the conflict totally away. enfjs can't handle conflict...meaning..we will lie to oursleves...make ourselves the bad guy...etc to make other person feel good and make conflict non-existent but istp does not respond to this...then self doubts, criticisms etc all sort of things come out which are not normal for enfj as their normal kind efforts are not working. they don't know what to do.... it is confusing...the enfj is trying to understand and come up with generous explanations of behavior of istp but if istp keeps avoiding and neglecting it starts to feel it is personal...and like istp want to hurt. i think enfj don't like to do things for reasons for motivations other then making someone feel happy or loved or belong socially and accepted. inside although enfjs are outgoing they feel alone inside cause always having to be on...for other people...so istps seem cool cause they don't say much and are indepndent and don't need all the things enfj are forcing themselves to do or do unconsicously... but enfjs need some support and acceptance themselves. one technique from my OD training on how you can avoid issues like you are talking about it this: when you say something objective you could say something like...i am not saying your a bad person or i have a problem with you but XYXZ.... if you say you are uncomfortable and don't understand the enfj will be shocked and hurt you did not say 'why are you doing this?' when you don't understand. why not ask? or say i don't understand please explain what this means..etc. not asking shows enfj that you do not care at all and are rather about yourself...which hurts even more when they believe all these wonderful things inside their head about you...at some point in time...it causes a lot of confusion.. enfjs read the silence of istps very positively i feel for a while...but when they get insecure or the istp wigs out which makes the enfj want to come closer and help the istp...more and more... the cycle of misunderstanding flares up as istp is thinking the enfj is trying to get into their business or something bad...and enfj is thinking the istp hates them now and must do whatever to win them back or make them feel loved...or cared for or accepted etc...when none of this works enfj starts to either judge or be negative but deep inside...this is just for show...and desperation...deep inside they still care and...keep hurting themselves to punish themselves for hurting the istp in a way just because they care...this becomes difficult to fix as it is paradoxical...they want to care but the caring is making the istp uncomfortable ...but enfj can't make themselves not care as it makes them guilty...so enfj hurts themselves a lot generating negative theories at this stage and hopes if istp wants enfj hurt badly this might satisfy the istp's needs for hurting. the online info saying istps hurt people they care about which makes this more confusing and hard. as an enfj then one starts to think to prove caring they must endure more suffering and hurting...until istp is satsified... but it sounds like enfj hurting themselves will not make istp come back. oh well. at least you are trying to find out and do care. too bad you can't let your enfj people know. i mean if you do what you are doing now with me with your enfj they would love you for it. hope that helps. just saying your not comfortable and you don't mean anything bad is a good start. also what is rather bad is the use of the statement of uncomfort as the enfj lives to make others comfortable...to have hear they cause uncomfort is probably the worst sleight to an enfj. as the enfj knows they can make anyone comfortable given some time to talk it through. (at least that's what in our heads) also enfj is flexible so once they know why istp is uncomfortable they are willing to change themselves way more than anyone else to fit the istps needs for comfort....that said they do need some re-assurance once in a while that everything is ok. or simple thanks over time is enough to maintain. enfj needs very little to keep on going as they will make up huge meaning out of small word or look to themselves in their positive outlook mode...and this in turn will cause them to do over the top things to make istps happy cause they feel the few words istps say very intensely because istps say so little.... this istp words and actions...have 100 times normal impact for enfj as it is few and far between. hope this helps. sorry for rambling. -- Anonymous |
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| A54 ps. i am going to try to send the following message to my istp based on what i learned from you. do u see any red flags or problems with my message that would freak my istp friend out? i don't mean to hurt, judge, or accuse or look down on you. i just feel really hurt and low that you don't want to spend anytime with me. i never meant anything bad. i am a positive caring person and fairly altruistic. i just want to see you atleast once and enjoy your company as a friend. i am sorry my actions confused you and i took your avoidance of me personally. please consider hanging out some time and letting the past misunderstanding go away. i am so sorry. you'll never know how bad i feel if i think i hurt you or made you uncomfortable. it causes so much pain to think that.... if i could i would do anything you want me to...i have tried punishing and isolating myself hoping that might satify you and now i feel that is un-necessary as you are not trying to hurt me. please when you get a chance ...consider hanging out just for fun. at least once and try and see. i am easy to understand...i enjoy making people happy and love them with all my heart and want to spend some time with you. i'll share your common interest if that helps make it easier to spend time with you. just let me know something you want to do and would like company on...a meal ...a walk ...going someplace...anything...i am open and willing to try anything. sorry for the insecurities and negativity. please know i am not like this. just wanted to show appreciation and make you happy to be back. it was important to me. -- Anonymous |
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