| Questions & Answers |
| Question #1193562692 | Sunday, 28-Oct-2007 |
|
|
| What is it about INTJ and INTP personalities that make them clash? I realize this isn't a black and white thing however what is it that makes them not get along? -- Nibs |
|
A1 it's in their speech patterns. INTj and INTp have similar interests, but explain things in completely different ways even if they agree on the topic being discussed. INTjs advance step by step in a logical argument while INTps stab a rapier through a faulty premise. as INTp, debates with INTjs are really boring ... with dominant  the first thing i grasp is where their argument is "heading" and then proceed to scope the first major flaw (usually in the premises) that would inhibit their continuing in the same direction. -- Anonymous |
| A2 |
| A3 A1 - I had a barroom debate that could be described exactly like that just last night! Hilarious. Good thing it was all good-natured (especially as there was alcohol involved) ... Seriously, though in a best-case scenario I can appreciate the step-by-step logical approach, and when discussing intellectual / abstract matters with my close friends, I find it downright useful because their thought patterns are different than mine, and I always learn something from the contrast. -- iAnnAu |
| A4 Hey, me and my brother get along fine, infact we are quite close (Me INTP, Brother INTJ), The conflict or confusion only comes when we try to explain a task to one another, we have totaly different ways of coming to the same conclusion. INTJ is all about making a decision, and INTP's all about the process. Other times of course my brother will get mad if he find's what I am (others)are saying patronizing. -- INTP |
A5 @A1 - I think you're right on. Looking at it from an INTj's perspective, I tend to get annoyed with INTps in debates because they jump to overly-hasty conclusions and shoot down arguments without properly analyzing them. It's a conflict between  and . -- Krig (INTj) |
| A6 I had an INTJ aquaintance. She was boring, because she was so slow. She talks slower than me and I'm an INTP. I was always like, get to the point already. -- yogurt |
| A7 a6. Never heard more ridiculous story in my life. For me it was always other way round, INTps were always boring me to death with their inability to get to the point. -- INTjohn |
| A8 INTj's methodology serves to examine everything in detail before voicing opinion, so then therefore is inclined to stick to said opinion. INTp's seem to voice there opinions straight away and of course therefore also adhere to said opinion. The difference is this .. That the first (INTj) relies on logic to primarily reach decision, while the second (INTp) relies primarily on intuition for said decision. Who can say who is right ?? However.. It is that INTj logic can be objectively better explained than INTp intuition, which therefore means *objectively*, that the INTj has the upper hand ... IE This is because INTj logic can be better explained than INTp intuition. That, I feel, captures the main essense of the differences between there 2 types..of course, one Ti to Ne, the other with Ni to Te -- Cyclops |
| A9 Are humans really ever objective? Can we really see an objective reality when we are colored by our humanity? Like seriously, get a clue. -- yogurt |
| A10 exactly A9. amen. proINTP...but also pro many INTPs with miriads of concentration and heritage -- @sirac |
| A11 A9, yes. I suggest you take to reading some philosophy books, or speak to an INTp for an education on objectivity and subjectivity. Are you ESTp? -- Cyclops |
|
|
| A12 A lot of people like to believe that they can see an objective reality. Duh! Who wants to believe otherwise? The idea that reality is subjective can be very disturbing to some people, especially ENTJs and obviously some INTJs too. -- yogurt |
| A13 Reality is not subjective - our perceptions of reality are subjective, to a certain degree. If reality itself is subjective, then the term has no meaning. You may as well say that reality doesn't exist. The question is, who is best able to work around his own biases and subjective preconceptions and most clearly perceive objective reality? No one can perceive reality perfectly, but surely that shouldn't stop us from trying to perceive it as clearly as we can. -- Krig (INTj) |
| A14 If you believe that you can see an objective reality, then you "can" see it. Kind of like how if you believe in Santa Claus, then he will "exist". -- yogurt |
A15 A14 - I don't mean to be rude, but that's meaningless nonsense of the highest order. I can genuinely believe that my bank account has a million dollars in it, but that doesn't mean I can go out and buy a yacht. There's a term for the level of disconnect from reality which you describe, it's called "insanity". -- Krig (INTj)
|
|
| What a great point! |
| A16 The problem there is that you don't really believe that you have a million dollars to buy the yacht. You think what I'm say is insane because you don't understand. People usually think that way about things they don't comprehend. -- yogurt |
| A17 A16 you are either on a wind up or you are seriously deluded. Dude if you seriously believe there are one million dollars in your bank account then it is only real in your mind. What goes on in your mind does not mean it actually exists. For instance; you look at your bank statement and you say it shows a million dollars. You go to the yaught club and the salesman says it doesn't. How then do you get your boat? -- Cyclops |
| A18 Ya'll totally don't get it, so I will do my best to enlighten your minds. Reality is experienced with the mind. If you really truly believe that you have a million dollars but the salesman says that you don't, then you will just think that the salesman is wrong. I have to say that even though reality is in the mind, you can't just make it into whatever you want it to be because most people are not disciplined enough to do so. By the way, I'm not delusional. I don't think that I am. Therefore, I'm not that way in my reality. -- yogurt |
A19 I realise we're getting further and further off topic, but since I would say this debate pretty much typifies the clash between INTj and INTp, I shall go on.  Forget the bank and the yacht for a moment. Let us say someone truly believed he could fly like Superman. Let us also say that that man stepped off of a cliff. He would fall to the rocks below. No matter how much he believes he can fly, it doesn't change reality. So while our perceptions of reality may be subjective, reality itself is not. Philip K. Dick wrote, "Reality is that which, when you stop believing in it, doesn’t go away." There is no individual reality, only individual delusions and misperceptions. -- Krig (INTj) |
| A20 If you perceive and believe that the man is falling off, then in your mind he is falling off. But in his mind he's flying like a an angel, making it's way to heaven. LOL, the great thing about reality is that you're right if you think that you are right. So Krig, you are right about what you said up there, because you believe that you are correct. I, on the other hand, disagree because my paradymn is different. What's up with words like delusions and misperceptions? How do you really know that you're not delusional? -- yogurt |
A21 @a20 You go and see psychiatrist, this is how you know  Well, it is a good point, actually. If your imaginary reality works for you in the real world, then who cares? But if it doesn't work you probably are dead already, then again, who cares? -- Anonymous |
| A22 A20 and A21. Here we see the beauty of being an S type. We simply know. N types seem disconnected from reality at the best of times, never mind the person who is slightly cookoo, like Mr INTp here -- Anonymous |
| A23 From my life experience, certain S types tend to jump to conclusion with an attitude like, you're wrong and I'm right because I trust my senses. But let's remember, everyone's senses are different. What you sense is not what other people sense. Therefore, in my opinion, people are only able to experience reality subjectively. -- yogurt |
| A24 A23 you are an INTp, you have very weak 'S' you have no choice but not to trust it, and it is flawed. Imagine if you could be as sure of S as you are of N. No, S do not jump to conclusion, they are able to see the world in ways you cannot -- Anonymous |
| A25 @a20 in the mind of the man falling off the cliff he is flying like an angel, but only until he hits the bottom. thats when his perception ends. "yogert" is simply into make believe. -- Anonymous |
| A26 S types say such typical things. Things that I've heard before. My strong extraverted intuition allows me experience reality. It's not like I'm handicapped. I'm handy capable at understanding what others think and why they think that they are right. I know that people don't like to think that they are biased. They like to believe that they are objectively correct. So ofcourse, many people will disagree with me when I say that people will always be colored by their humanity and thus, are not able to see reality in an objective way. That is my subjective opinion. I own up to the fact that I can't see an objective reality. I accept that and try my best to "seek out truths". I definitely don't pretend that I'm totally correct and everyone else is wrong. I'm just putting my opinions out there and I debate to see what others think. That's all. -- yogurt |
| A27 A26 INTp's have introverted intuition not extroverted intuition. Do you really think you will fly if just think you will? I mean do you really think that or are you just playing devils advocate to the debate? -- Anonymous |
| A28 Actually INTPs have extraverted intuition. It allows us to see how situations could turn out in different ways; that's why we are Ps. INTJs have introverted intuition. That allows them to see into the future, but in a linear path. If I really believed that I could fly, then in my mind I will be able to fly. What others think will depend on how they see the situation. -- yogurt |
| A29 A28 you know nothing about socionics. INTp has NiTeSiFe and INTj has TiNeFiSe. This and your ludicrous flying statements shows that you truly are demented. -- Anonymous |
| A30 You can think what you want, but personal attacts are not necessary here. According to intpcentral.com, it's TiNeSiFe for INTPs. For an INTJ, it's NiTeFiSe. Do you people really think that you can see an objective reality? Come on now? By speaking English or whatever language(s) you speak, you are automatically biased, because reality is constructed through language and every language is different. But if you still don't believe me, then you can keep on thinking what you want. It's your head. -- yogurt |
| A31 Lol.. INTP and INTJ is myers briggs and INTp and INTj is socionics. The first two functions are swapped over in socionics. Maybe you are socionics INTj then? Check it out on this site for instance. But of course, you can 'think' what you want lol -- Anonymous |
| A32 Heh, yogurt is clear cut socionics INTp, no doubt about it. -- Anonymous |
| A33 A32 is he? He says he's got Ne, maybe he's an INFp, I haven't seen much logic from him -- Anonymous |
| *Please note that the opinions expressed are not necessarily those of socionics.com* |
|
| Would you like to add anything? |
(
