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| Question #1185459330 | Thursday, 26-Jul-2007 |
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| Are ENTPs the most narcissistic Myers-Briggs type? -- anon |
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| A33 A32 i made this observation back in A21. There is actually a huge list of information that I could present to you to show that current society goes against just about everything that is correct and logical to what human beings are designed for-some of them are actually being attempted by politicians to make as part of our lives. But you know I'm so sick of being attacked I ain't. You may not think this isn't a big loss but i've actually got a lot of fascinating info-but then who cares really haha. Also zoidberg- i tried to lighten the tone in A25 by signing off with a star trek reference. Do you even know that your cartoon character (name) was created to be an anti-mccoy? Also the term idiot refers to ones iq-how low of you to insult retarded people-when clearly the fact that I can type this means I am neither this a moron or an imbecile-and if I was do you make a habit of insulting handicapped people? You know I suspect that had I called myself intp or something then what I had to say would be listened to without heckles, and get to some serious discussion far sooner. -- Sp |
A34 @Sp: "I have a degree in biochemistry" And you got this degree by following what your body told you to be pleasurable? Doubt it, or then you must really like the sensation of holding a book. "In nature take a group of female lions-they will fight to defend territory against an invading male, even although they risk death personally (altruism verses selfishness) so in effect nature favours altruistic groups as opposed to the individual stereotypical idea of tooth and claw 'survival of the fittest'" That's territorialism not altruism. The example is no different from humans having a war over oil. Altruism would be when a herd of lions help a baby antilope. And does that happen? And btw. using an endagered specie as an example of "being fit" isn't a smart thing to do  "It would do us well to listen to the logic of our forefathers and to nature." Yet, you are there sitting all comfortable writing this stuff on the net, instead of actually doing it. (There's nothing like NT getting to critize a sensor for the lack of  ) "You know I suspect that had I called myself intp or something then what I had to say would be listened to without heckles, and get to some serious discussion far sooner." No, then this would have turned into "you're not INTp"-discussion  And about biochemistry and "programming" of the brain. Here's one more example, as an attempt to enlighten you. You can make software on a computer that follows programmed logic, or make software that just follows (for example joystick) input and does nothing else. The first program is logical, the second one isn't (despite the program being construct of deterministic instructions). I don't disagree entirely with everything you say. There are things I do agree with, like that humans in general aren't logical at all -- INTp |
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| A35 what's not good with A31's stand. everything is there. it's a functional model. of-course if he went into specific course with any one aspect, this could have been ironned out for those specifics as easy as a flash. Maybe even in my terms. The whole controvery surrounding N vs S, T vs F and NT and NTPs as a group...are not actually Objectively Socionics CENTRED, but may infact be Sp's survival instinct coming to bear against the hallmarks of combined N T and S F past generational 'failure and misunderstanding'...which one group tends to imput rather bizzarely as the others fault, or as indeed we see..seem to rest at S F J combinatorial use against what is refered to by Creatives as anti-Intuitive descrimination. perhaps we are all survivors in a barrel. so A32, what are u, so-that we may laugh at u. -- @sirac |
| A36 yup i can honestly say that whatever i have said in a32 is wrong, i have not read what a31 completely just maybe his pervious entries i want to talk what i have said in a32 back and i am an ENFJ by the way -- it can be wrong |
| A37 I thought i'd come back and address a few points here, well i'm waiting on my train i'm on the net and as much as anything I may as well for the sake of it, for the sake of it. Namely for A34 and anyone else who may be interested. Regards to territorialism, yes it is to a certain extent-but you see this only works in an altruistic group. Allow me to quantify, in the pride group, the majority of the individuals put themselves at personal risk for the sake of pride survival. There are one or two slackers who get an easy ride but the majority will chip in. That is why as a group they are altruistic. If too many become selfish that no longer happens and none of them will care to make a stand so they will give way to an invading altruistic group. In human society today we are becoming predominantly selfish, so our 'group' will by this therefore lose out. Ok now lions are a good example as they are at their pinnacle kings of the jungle. Are they on the extinct list? Yes and no. Yes because their hunting territory is being eaten away by agriculture, and no because they are so many of them-but separated due to said agriculture. If you are unconvinced take simpler organisims-bees or ants. Individual bees will automatically sacrifise themselves for younger fitter bees in the hive. There guys have survived for ages. Another think to note that has gone awry is this.. Now if you look at the size of ape and chimp populations-there pop size is directy related to their brain size-about twenty of them. This is because their are only a certain amount of others they can personally recognise. Taking this brain size into account and apply it as a relation to human brain size..what you get is the human can personally recognise a population of one hundred. Interesting as this was the size of the typical english village and town population prior to industrial revolution. When the town got bigger it would fragment into a new village. Now with our massive populations is it any wonder there is so much crime anti social behaviour depression etc. My trains about to arrive and I cant be bothered reviewing this for a redraft but i beleive the essential points be there. Thank you for your attention hehe! -- Cyclops (the previous sp porter here) |
| A38 I'm an entp and I honestly hate myself. -- entp |
| A39 @A37:"Regards to territorialism, yes it is to a certain extent-but you see this only works in an altruistic group. Allow me to quantify, in the pride group, the majority of the individuals put themselves at personal risk for the sake of pride survival. There are one or two slackers who get an easy ride but the majority will chip in. That is why as a group they are altruistic." That's exactly the same as saying that nazis were being altruistic for committing the holocaust, the victims just weren't part of their "pride". You need to check up what being altruistic actually means. "Ok now lions are a good example as they are at their pinnacle kings of the jungle." You realize that 'king of the jungle' is just a symbolic name, that has no connection to reality. "Are they on the extinct list? Yes and no." For example the last wild Barbary Lion (the largest of the lion species, the actual specie pictured in coats of arms) was killed in 1920's. Brown bears are lot more successful than lions, and are solo predators. "If you are unconvinced take simpler organisims-bees or ants." What I said about the "altruism" of lions applies to bees and ants too. -- INTp |
| A40 Hello my A39 friend. My point to raise was in relation to altruistic groups. Now anyone who has at least slighlty studied human evolution MUST acknowledge our groupish nature and the importance of between group interactions-so WE are group animals. So that puts to bed any talk you have about loner animals (but nonetheless bears aren't doing that great ie look at the brown bear and the panda bear) bees fit in nicely to altruism as they are infact a perfect (but extreme) example of eusocialism. In regards to the nazi's they are infact a good example because they where an altruistic group working so well within their group that they almost outcompeted every single other group (countries) on the planet. This sort of between group conflict has acted as a crucible for the cultural revolution of extremely co-operative societies (look how we all pulled together during that second world war. I respectfully did my bit on rememberence Sunday.) Infact on topic, group competition has spawned most of the previous empires (I refer to biologist peter turchin who has extensive research in this field) Now thats established, with increased globalisation we are becoming almost one society. This empire leads to this group altruism falling apart - we are being left to myriad forms of exploitation free-riding and factionalism (this is all around us in todays world) My point over the last few posts is we need to get back on track.(My original structural altruism response still stands) It is as was said a structural model, which as said/shown stands with plenty evidence. Even universally acclaimed sirac (who is always exceptionally informed) noted that it does stand up. I wonder, are you looking to be convinced A39 because it is I purpose there to be taken or not. I do appreciate your examinations, but at the same time I wonder, it would be interesting to hear what you would suggest, and can stand up to for some reason or other being put through the mill? -- Cyclops |
| A41 Personally not to get off subject which I am not real clear on what it is exactly at this point, but.... I hate when people use animals in comparison to humans. Animals react to their instincts, we respond to our emotions and hopefully our logic. I have yet to view animals as altruistic. And I personally know and can recognize more than 100 people, not bragging as I don't see this as something real hard to do. -- Anonymous |
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