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Question #1185435851Thursday, 26-Jul-2007
Category: ISTp INTp Hidden Agenda
According to the ISTP uncovered profile, it says that they may need to hurt those they love in order to understand that they love them becaue of the peculiar nature of their hidden agenda. INTPs also have the same "hidden agenda" function ([Fi]). I take this as "wanting to love/like people" but constantly being disappointed and then "hurting" them. Does this imply physical/verbal abuse? -- Anonymous
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A22 so there was one or other INTP break-out here, wonderful, i skipped most of the ISTP stuff to get to here. perhaps with INTPs hounding around, i might actual get a valuble structural criticism, i am genuinely excited (and scared)! But not really scared, i may not have pretence that i am intellectually successful (older, have a job working some other analytical hot-shot career), but i can sense my place intellectually... like one INTP said...broad frameworks__ that is where we realize the critical essence of things, and i do think i am steeped or initiated in some knowledge form, an armour with which i now do intellectual battle.(also, focussing on broader context is a better way to grow, and knowing when to go to specific contexts?!) (ain't it incidental, that INTPs grow amongst hostile and lonely environments,..perpective-wise, probably just to have self-confidence amongst other intellectuals). Fundamentally i start by saying this: _all of u guys where INTp, that u fought tells me little more than that u guys are desperately gripping with tools, so as to standardize a tool for use, something valuable to overcome that thing we feel in FAILURE. i think it was A3 who put the epic INTP emotions on paper, for which i feel grateful, for i could identify, and eventually the INTP structural ball went against him, even one guy reducing to Fi out-pour, which was classed as the structural failure in arguement. BUT (ignoring this, cause i dont need to countenance it), did any of u INTPs notice the multi stage thing. Initiation, we INTPs suck, and DURING [relationship]..for in which stage ISTPs suck. This observance lends credence to the Fi structural arguement the latter INTP posters made. But it is not all correct. Concentrating on Fi, we say that one can't detect the feelings of a female partner,...for ISTps i would say they quit on relationships DURING .., because they are lost in there 'IS' vector, attempting a law statement out of this: 'overall relational direction is not detected apart from self'. Now INTPs attempt to make myths out of this Fi. One guy said in casual group meetings, u as INTP can't sense your F-sensed charm, which is actual NTPism vocally expressing from excitement. The fact is u can, but in overall Strategic Schemetics we as INTPs generate, we are probably Oblivious (cause we a filled with our overall scheme, so to speak, S-s have a different 'scheme' which is why they can be intellectually inapt), much as a S-type would be oblivious to structural demands we try to enforce, but whatever, this is not lack of F-detection. The guy, perhaps A3, yes A3, who illuminated 'general scheme', was correct. A10, now your question is answered in a Socionics general scheme, they are probably the same as an element in personality, except with ISTPs they have a different zone of interaction, within the relationship, for INTPs it is genuinely before the relationship, for schemetically in there heads they search for, and model many criteria. As an INTP, i don't feel there is anything wrong with this.[or with A3's description of HyperLove, or 'perfect match search']..normally it is a good way to detect a structurally mature ESFP, cause the interchange like the A3 guy asserts is'ent done on useable assests. Is there a better way to get there than A3 suggests, none of us wants to die alone, well, i have to guess there is, cause whatever negative mode is projected is unacceptable (my only emotion now-a-days is informational elements wholey experienced in N_P, which is'ent immediately expressed in T-vector form, that is verbal structurally). a Superlove, yes, i have to agree again. lack of F is not lack of love. it is a structural blindness, with INTPs in initiation and with ISTPs during (because so much of the incoming interation for ISTPs come through the S block, which means they have to be in a relationship, rather than structurally for-see it before). Oh Fi, detecting how strong emotions the other person has, that's not a problem, as i said, ISTPs are masked from this by other information elements [during], we ar'ent as INTPs [during and before, especially this during phase causes excitement, for we can project people into those slots, and one who can make it, definitely causes excitement], normally we detect this [Feelings a girl has for us] by how much SF females bring to the game (which is there ellaborate P vector styl-ized, sothat we INTPs can detect there level 'immediately'), cause we are structural geniuses. Remember, there is over-extension, when i guy is still playing when i girl merely tolerates the lost expedition...ESFPs ar'ent capable of this, normally they are well and very quickly aware of all of the INTP males, and will obviously purify there perceptual vector by crossing from that list all the 'lesser men and pretenders'. But generally, as people live, especially ESFPs, there comes a certain 'political weight' attached to life, which they seek to balance by getting a 'right guy' in place. So, now i am at my end. These where my initial impressions, if i find a unifying concern again, like what is so easy to find with S-F posts, or immature NT posts, i will post again. Welcome to both games, Mr Gentle Man INTPs.(remember, in hell, i will still genuinely laugh u to pieces if u received less than me in life, cause i will say, it was so obvious) -- @sirac
A23 I know that the istp breakup/torture style probably isn't the best thing about us, but the thought of actually sitting down and discussing my feelings about an issue makes me so incredibly uncomfortable that I would rather cut a few fingers off! I'd really rather be unpleasant to the other person in order to convince them that I'm a bitch and then disappear- no explanations, no sitting around discussing feelings and hopefully they'll dislike me enough that they'll be wanting to party instead of cry! -- istp
A24 to sum: an INTp's mind understands and attempts to use the philosopher's stone. that all forces inevitably meet with equal and opposite reaction is already clear to INTps from early on. in time, they can master the art of never being rammed directly by that opposite reaction while using the "forces" of the world to their advantage. and they can bungle miserably. needless to say, an Se/Fi guise is exactly what they need to avoid the suspicion that habitually mounts on "the quiet one." as usual sirac, 4/5. -- Anonymous
A25 Interesting ... I test INTp but self-identify as ISTp, and reading this thread makes me feel quite justified. Seeing how the ISTps talk about themselves, and especially how the INTp sirac describes him (her?) self ... I finally figured out I don't follow logic the way sirac does (this is about the 20th thread I've read so far; he's posted in most of them). So, speaking as an ISTp, I notice a pattern of easily loving others, but altogether too easily retreating from that love when I see an opportunity to go off in a new, unpredictable direction that takes me out of my current sig.other's proximity. I personally have little difficulty focusing on the new things such a move brings into my life, therefore you could say I fall both in and out of love easily. Since this has meant on several occasions that the other party is still in love after the breakup (and thus hurts - if you want to call it "by me" rather than "over me", you can), I am now trying to figure out whether I should get into emotionally attached relationships at all. The ONLY time I took someone back after breaking up, I felt insincere and guilty, and things fell apart within weeks. It seems I am able to allow my emotions some free range, but get overwhelmed by the full implications once a relationship has had time to deepen. My natural (and I can't claim it's noble) tendency to consider myself a fearless loner keeps me from fully committing. Perhaps the aspect of hurting a loved one before the ISTp understands he/she's in love has to do with our sometimes lack of empathy, and so we need a wakeup call which often takes the form of having hurt our sig.other. I wouldn't see it as us "needing" to hurt them - but it might often require *some* event (and hurting a loved one is an easy example). -- iAnnAu
A26 For me it doesn't imply physical abuse, as that would go against my internal principle set. Verbal abuse? Depends what that means because I have hurt peoples feelings from times to time but if it means name calling then no that wouldn't be my gig. Something i've found its that i don't have-well almost none-any problems really in attracting a mate. Infact the last few have really 'fallen for me' as that expression is-allegedly i have a package of ok enough looks intelligence and a bit of deep thinking. However it is always the same for me as i like the relationship at first and the more i am with it(relationship) the less fun it becomes and the more serious it ends up-i don't like commitments or being what i perceive as trapped and when they come to depend on me too much i feel the entrapment so in a sense i am rebelling against the perceived confinement of which i have low tolerance. A25 i too have/am questioning wether i should be in relationships at all-i have started one recently but the good and the bad of it is closely balanced. I am attempting to stick this one for the mo- to a certain extent out more of a socio type experiment of me as much as anything maybe i'll find its good to force/control/overcome various aspects of me -- Cyclops
A27 Something else to add-any paul simon fans out there. My take on him is as he strikes me as an istp-and of course he was married to carrie fisher who i look at as enfp. Not so 'of course' is that they ended up seperating! (rr!) What I would like to say is that his album hearts and bones is largely about the break up of said marriage-much about how he felt how it affected him etc-its a good example of an istp actually experiencing love giving it a real go etc but being lost and bewildered that it is more complex than his simple ability of it is, and it provides a slice of istp being lost in regards to that. Certainly I can relate to it-so maybe he aint istp and i aint also haha! Just thought i'd mention this as another slice of info is all. -- Cyclops
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