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| Questions & Answers |
| Question #1181867651 | Friday, 15-Jun-2007 |
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| INTj with ESFj...can it work? I believe ESFj (my dual) is indeed my ideal match, but a month after being rejected by one after a single date I've been contemplating what is going wrong. Then it hit me last night when I was told by a mutual acquantance that this girl prefers talkative guys who are more like her. ESFjs are the great hostesses of the world, the glue of society, making all feel comfortable and at home. Why would they want a bumbling, socially awkward INTj? I can picture it now: we're at the party, we're mingling with the guests, and she's introducing this cold, quiet, awkward fellow. Now instead of getting respect and admiration, she gets strange looks and loses some ability to play her role as she once did. She'd prefer to introduce her normal, socially aware companion. Of course that's an exaggeration, but I'm not sure if ESFjs get nearly as much out of a relationship as INTjs. I'm immensely attracted to this type, but if it's not realistic then maybe I should be more open to others. Am I wrong? Can you list the INTj traits that these very independent ESFjs find appealing? Thanks. -- INTj Scott |
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| A15 Re: How an INTJ (or similar) can win over an ENFJ (or similar) - Online dating services (eHarmony and the like) are custom-designed to showcase the INTJ's strengths: clear thinking, good writing, linear thought. Register with one of these and develop a relationship with someone you're attracted to BEFORE meeting her in a social setting. Then when you do meet her, she'll see you in the context of everything she already knows and likes about you. Just remember: keep notes short and punchy, and funny whenever possible; keep things light; show interest, but don't grill her (you've got time to fill out that mental checklist); take care not to sound like you're talking down to her (I know you're not, but she might think so); don't try to meet her too quickly - give yourself plenty of time to make a deep impression; don't send her socionics or MBTI information (don't ask how I know). There's a reason INTJ's dominate these boards (and it's partly because they don't have a date). -- INTJ |
| A16 A12- I agree. a lot of the INTJ's I know are very popular. I think it's because people see them as independent, and they demand respect. Also, they are usually quite nice and somewhat classy. So it's true ESFJs are looking for someone to 'show off', but INTJs, in my opinion are usually really fascinating. BUT I also agree with A13- In the long run I think ESFJs would do better with someone more like an ESTP.. they can't fully appreciate INTJs. The see them as novelties to show off, but don't really 'get' them. INTJs may find what they need in ENFPs. -- Anonymous |
| A17 A6+A7: Actually, recently I found out that absolute and utter hatred for a Dual exists... It is the problem that Duals can communicate most effectively so unfortunately also when they want to offend each other they can do it effectively. An INTp guy that I had known, highly respected and understood for five years suddenly offended me in such a nastily sophisticated way, accused me of something that is not true because I told him he was acting illogically (thing you find in the ESFp description), transgressed my personal space border without warning and when I said I didnt like it he suggested I am not normal, etc.etc. that I am totally shocked and deeply offended. Other people told me and I am also starting to believe that he used me as a means to **** off his girlfriend whom he has problems with. It was such a terrible situation that I doubt we will ever speak to each other again. More so, because usually, I understand when an INTp does something mean - I know there is no excuse for their behaviour but at least I know the motivation. But as to the behaviour of this guy, I have been racking my brains over his possible motivations but still found none other than that he is hypersensitive, dominant, selfish and aggressive. An aggressive INTp is something terrible because they take everything very seriously, including their anger, especially if you hurt their Fi, and you cannot see their aggressivity, their movements are as soft and slow as always, but it is there, working secretly and through random sophisticated lines, driving you mad. -- Ezis (ESFp) |
| A18 I'm an INTj and my wife is and ESFj. I was very stongly drawn to her (after 8 years of marriage I'm still drawn to her). It took a little time. I first met her on a blind date but she was not my date, she was my friends date. I knew her for about 4 months before my friend gave up on her and I moved in for the kill. -- Anonymous |
| A19 I am an INTJ female, and have dated many different types...I know because I either tested them myself or they had previous been tested thru work or school. Without Exception I have found that relationships with "STJ's" were the most conlicted, stressful and misunderstood (STJs just do not "get" INTJs). Best relationships have been with other Intuitives...however, with other INTJs it was more difficult wrt physical attraction because both of us were so analytical, precise, proper...I think I personally as a female INTJ need my partner to have some "F" to counter my strong "T". I am currently married to an INFP....that has it's own challenges...but at least he is always trying to dominate me or is not threatened by my independence. -- Black Knight INTJ |
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A20 First, I'd just like to make it clear that not all ESFjs are the ditzy, social-butterfly types they seem to be stereotyped as (I'm an ESFj). Second, I love INTjs (males, not females - the female INTjs I have met so far drove me up the wall). I dated an INTj for a little while, and I was more comfortable around him than anybody I had ever met in my life. I was very aware that ALL of my friends (except for my wonderful, understanding ENFp  ) thought I was the weirdest piece of poo on earth to be dating this fellow. He was well known to be egotistical, weird, and a "big meanie-head." I did not care in the least. The way he made me feel topped anything I could ever have gotten from the rest of my friends, so I put our relationship above their opinions on my priority list. The relationship, unfortunately, ended because he was uncomfortable with it due to... er.. lack of experience. I still care about this little turd a lot, however. I suppose the point I am trying to make is that, yes, an ESFj-INTj relationship can work (well, be initiated, at least) so long as the ESFj realizes that there are things (love) that are much more important than social status (Blechh). -- ESFj lady |
| A21 Depends on the sub-type of the ESFJ and INTJ. A logical but colder INTJ (Ti) will prefer the 100mph talkathon ESFJ Ethical (Fe) subtype because through her verbalness he will sort out 95% and extrapolate 5% useful of her conversation. The intuitive INTJ (Ne, more critical and mobile) will prefer a more softer ESFJ (Si) who is more of a gracious party host. Personally I think the socionics intertype needs to be have a notice regarding subtypes theory. For example, ISTJ-Ti (Logical) will behave more like Spock (Star Trek) while the ISTJ-Se (Sensing) will behave like your typical loud dominating policeman. -- INTJ |
| A22 My experience agrees with A12 and A19. INTJ (M) has been married to ESFJ (F) for last 20 years, and no s..t, it takes a lot of work. The lack of Nness probably the hardest part. However, most of my mates are INTJs and nearly all of them have ESFJ partners. Our relationships are dynamic, explosive (well the partners are, but let's face it, we are frustrating to most other personalities) and interesting, and it's great for the kids, they get emotion and logic. I really like ESFps and ENFps though. -- Dave INTP |
| A23 I honestly don't see how and why an INTJ would be attracted to ESFJs personality-wise. How this type is my Dual puzzles the hell out of me. Maybe if you're naive and haven't dealt with any in your lifetime you'd be attracted to them. But as someone who has grown up with SFs his entire life I wouldn't see myself in a long-term relationship with one. The SF combination to me is the ultimate turn-off being NT. Those two letters have caused me nothing but frustration. SFs in my experience have child-like brains even as adults; they think everything is soooo... simple. A SF might say something like, "I'm a Man/Woman because I'm taller than you, stronger than you, faster than you, drive a car, have lots of Friends, have a job, have money, live in a house, and have kids." Or "I'm a good cop because I shoot lots of bad guys." While an NT might identify themselves as an adult or good police for more abstract intangible reasons which have actual substance. The simple mindedness of SFs have always annoyed me with a passion; especially if they're extraverted loud mouths with an inability to realize how stupid their views sound. Seriously, are you listening to yourself speak, or is there some device implanted in your head making you say whatever illogical **** that comes to mind, just to get under the skin of an INTJ??? (With an ultimate goal of having them get fed up with your stupidity and get punched in the mouth.) -- MBTI and Socionics INTJ |
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