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Question #1181867651Friday, 15-Jun-2007
Category: INTj ESFj Relationship Advice
INTj with ESFj...can it work? I believe ESFj (my dual) is indeed my ideal match, but a month after being rejected by one after a single date I've been contemplating what is going wrong. Then it hit me last night when I was told by a mutual acquantance that this girl prefers talkative guys who are more like her. ESFjs are the great hostesses of the world, the glue of society, making all feel comfortable and at home. Why would they want a bumbling, socially awkward INTj? I can picture it now: we're at the party, we're mingling with the guests, and she's introducing this cold, quiet, awkward fellow. Now instead of getting respect and admiration, she gets strange looks and loses some ability to play her role as she once did. She'd prefer to introduce her normal, socially aware companion. Of course that's an exaggeration, but I'm not sure if ESFjs get nearly as much out of a relationship as INTjs. I'm immensely attracted to this type, but if it's not realistic then maybe I should be more open to others. Am I wrong? Can you list the INTj traits that these very independent ESFjs find appealing? Thanks. -- INTj Scott
Your Answers: 1+ 15+
A1 Why would they want a bumbling, socially awkward INTj? Because he is not like them. I am an ESFp and I am attracted to INTps because they are able to make decisions not based on momentary emotions (unlike me), they are calm, original and independent-thinking. I think these are the traits INTjs share with INTps, so probably you will eventually find an ESFj girl that will be interested in you out of a similar reason. Maybe it will take some time for her to realize this, because "only after not seeing each other for a while the dual partners realize how much they need each other". But dont give up, and forget about your "introducing" nightmares, because ESF girls are great at introducing someone in an interesting and charming way. So I think when you find an ESFJ girl that really loves you you will not feel awkward with her and she will introduce you so that her friends will like you. -- Ezis
A2 Another thing to remember is that just because two partners have a theoretically favourable relation (i.e. duality), it doesn't always mean things will work out. There's room for lots of variation within a single type, so if one particular ESFj isn't interested, there's a good chance that another one will be. Keep looking - if an ESFj doesn't like you for who you are, that's something on the ESFj's side of things and nothing that you have done wrong. Unfortunately I don't know the specifics of what it is exactly that ESFjs like from INTjs, but I'm sure someone else will be able to enlighten you. Hope this helps anyway. -- BLauritson (INTp)
A3 INTjs are not all socially awkward and bumbling. I personally don't like to go to social gatherings full of strangers so I avoid it (waste of time, pain in the a-) but for example I ushered at my sister's wedding and did an A+ job at it (and I didn't want to do that either). I was supervised by a female ESFj the same age as I am and a polite relationship turned into an all-out war by the time I left. I still hate her, so no, dual realtionships have their pitfalls, although INTj-ESFp is obviously a bad choice, for example. No theory completely covers any person completely due to the fact that all of us are unique. It's also a mistake to discriminate based on type. Other forces besides type can attract or repel two people. -- econdude
A4 ESFj's independent?! There's not a type, that's more codependent than the ESFj. From my experience with ESFj's, it's obvious that what ESFj's need is a INTj, if they don't see that, it's their loss entirely. Or any any other T-type that won't tell they are morons straight at their face after listening to them for too long. From an ESFj I have heard such "ingenious" and naturally very stubbornly defended statements like:"Dachshunds are really fast runners, because they can move their legs so quickly". Well there might have been "some" conflicting bias here. So anyway, dates aren't probably the place where you can display your strenghts. Maybe you should get yourself in position with an ESFj, where you are the person she comes to seek for information. How do you get there, I have no clue. Maybe you should consider other types too, for example another INTj would be just as good option too. -- Anonymous
A5 I am an ESFJ. I definitely believe that ESFJ - INTJ relationships can work. I have always been drawn to quiet introverts like yourself. I am married to an ISTJ, who I had a crush on since I was 10 years old. He needs time by himself. I am very independent and he is quite happy to let me go out by myself with my friends (a fact that just makes me love him all the more). I love his quiet confidence. He listens to my constant chatter without complaint. He worships the ground I walk on. He is my rock. Completely dependable. He is gentle and extremely intelligent. Intelligence, humour and ralionality is something I value highly. At work he is the boss and all the young girls he works with have a crush on him, but I trust him completely just as he trusts me. Have confidence in yourself - a trait us ESFJs really admire! Good Luck ps I have a good friend who is an INTJ (female) who is very self confident and is very happily married to an ESTP. Here's a list of things to do to make her notice you: 1. give her sincere complements as often as possible (if they are not sincere she will know) 2. smile at her and hold her gaze for as long as possible (believe it or not this actually causes the other person to produce a hormone that makes them fall in love with you!) 3. make a special effort on her birthday, xmas, valentines day, etc. 4. don't criticise Good luck and hope that you find someone special -- Anonymous
A6 I am an INTJ female. Now, I know that ESFJ's can be difficult. My youngest brother is an ESFJ and he fluctuates between love for me and absolute and utter hatred verbally laced with incomprehensibly horrifying slanders that have absolutely no factual grounding. On the bright side, they are also capable of incredible sensitivity and are able to reason if you approach them with love firstly, a calm and open attitude secondly and are very careful not to be too critical. The advantage you have, in pursuing a female ESFJ (and I agree with the above comment about paying attention to important dates like birthdays, etc.) is that you can approach it like a science like everything else you do well. You are an INTJ. If you can get past the fact that you don't see value in a lot of the things she does and vice versa, then cater to her a bit, she should be fairly easy to woo. Most women, if they are attracted to you at all, can be wooed. Some women (and men) however, may be bored by your type of intelligence, so steer clear of them... that would not be a happy and long lasting romantic relationship. A female ESFJ who quickly dumps a male INTJ is either immature, intimidated, or bored... so don't waste your time. If you're dead set on this type, you may have to wait until they grow into maturity and realize the benefits that a relationship with such an open minded and devoted person can offer. If I were you I would consider pursuing another intuitive thinker. By the way, Mr. Darcy from Jane Austen's Pride and Prejudice was an obvious INTJ and he's the dream man of many women, so take heart. I don't know where your from, but if you want a bit of an advantage, British women tend to be attracted to this type more than American women. Good luck with your search! -- Anonymous
A7 @A6: Absolute and utter hatred for a Dual? It doesn't sound right. You either giving it a verbal spin a bit too much or not duals with your brother. -- Dr. Zoidberg
A8 Dual pairing doesn't mean "just pick up and play." It's absolutely what you put into it. If you ID up fast, you'll go totally on tilt. An INTj probably dominates stuff, mostly, and you're not used to it. So it's time to get a clue, from them! -- The Sum-Total ENTJ.
A9 I am naturally attracted to my opposite (im an INTJ)...because they have such a ZEST for life. However i find touchy feely people very hard to deal with...i am so put off by emotions i find it hard to relate. Also i cant seem to get any enjoyment out of hugs and things like that. What i also notice is ESTJ's are in to much need of emotional reassurance and they dont understand what an I T truly needs. I find SF's extremely hard to talk to since they are so "simple". Not to to say that i dont enjoy their company however living with them is often tiring. I believe if a type is opposite of you they must fully understand myers briggs....however i find most S-F's just cant grasp it. Extroverts just dont understand I's but i find I's kind of dull. I think it's all about understanding. Where was i going with this?...i dont know -- INTJ
A10 NTs and SJs don't mix. You're better off taking your chances with an NF. -- ENTP
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A11 Remember ESFj's put a lot of emphasis on financial security and their partners being some sort of rock. So go out their and use your natural INTj ability to make yourself some sort of wordly success and they will be swooning over you -- ISTp
A12 Take that same party scene you mentioned. Now imagine that the ESFj is running around playing the perfect host.... What would an INTj be doing? Why he would be in an intensely fascinating discussion with a very small group of likeminded individuals, showing off his mental "chops" and gaining respect amongst the intellectuals of the room while giving the non-intellectuals feelings of envious inferiority. Alternately he might be mixing copious cocktails at the wet bar to delight the party patrons, or perhaps diligently controlling the music to suit the tastes of the various guests. Don't cut yourself short, and do not be afraid of parties. Learn to cope with them, however uncomfortable they may be, and you will find that even INTj's have a place and a function within them that can show off their individual talents and positive traits. INTj don't gravitate to parties, but it doesn't mean we cannot be successful in a party situation. You just have to learn to work on your strengths. -- Anonymous
A13 can i say that with the theory of dual, its a personality based theory. I believe ESFJ, as an extrovert feeler, really cares about what is popular and doesn't really know what she really want, they just dont have the intuition and thinking to understand someone like INTJ is better off for them than say the ESTP or other extrovert. -- Jas
A14 A12 knows what s/he's talking about. -- Anonymous
*Please note that the opinions expressed are not necessarily those of socionics.com*
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