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Question #1177021929Thursday, 19-Apr-2007
Category: ENTp ISFp Duality Theory Intertype Relations
I'm an ENTP and I have found an ISFP that I absolutely fell in love with. It happened pretty much how the intertype relations stated it would; she thought she wasn't good enough for me and and I though she was too simple. You referred to 'stages' in the description of relations of duality. It seems we may be stuck on a stage. She just doesn't seem to like me even though she says she does. Is this how ISFPs work? Its such a weird 'relationship' we have. We aren't holding hands and kissing anymore but when we were, it just happened and she didn't want to talk about it. I can eventually get her to talk about things but it just seems I want so much more affection and intimacy than she does. I feel/think very strongly that she has the upper hand in this situation. Is this a stage? -- Chad Avalon
Your Answers: 1+ 17+
A1 Are you sure you're not mistaking a fling for Duality? 'Weird' you say? Duality is too simple to be 'weird'. Maybe she is not your Dual after all? -- Dr. Zoidberg
A2 I've noticed with ISFps that you have to let them operate on their own timetable. This can be frustrating for someone who likes to take the initiative at home and at work. People are snowflakes, not one of sixteen types of cookie cutter gingerbread people. One dual relationship might work while another one will never have a chance. I think it's more important to find common interests than focus on socionics and type. Best wishes... Hey, gingerbread people - that was a good one! -- econdude
A3 While I appreciate the feedback, there was no thoughtful response to my inquiry. Analyzing the word 'weird' may have been a bit much considering my types (and me, myself! to satisfy the 'non-cookie cutter response) potential to just blurt in the ready-fire-aim fashion. It was 'weird' in the sense that I just could not understand her, and my actions rely primarily on understanding, or at least trying to understand (an thing I believe). I just wanted clarification on the enigmatic and ambiguous 'stages' that are mentioned in the description of duality. As far as the cookie cutter response; I am very well aware of those facst and that advice does not provide any insight either. Once again its appreciated but just not effective. Not all the authors fault however. There was not a clear distinction between my feelings and thoughts. I apologize. This has been what I percieve to be the ENTPs primary flaw; inarticulation with a lack of insight on how significant the effects are of this flaw. This post is an (inferior?) attempt to make up for it. With that being said; isnt it obvious that if we are speaking of a preferential typology and not a deterministic typology, and that everyone is a 'snowlflake'? Back to my inquiry. First the objective side: Is there any documentation or information anywhere that refers to the specific 'stages' mentioned in the duality description? Or was that an inarticulate 's intution fleshing out a hierarchical (lateral thinking) process that may or may not occur on any tangible (and potentially empirical) schema? The subjective side: She started to get close again and the many variables that existed outside of the ontological grasp of typology(real life stuff) began to dwindle down. We're a couple now (Yay!) and it has been an intersting, fun and difficult process indeed! Hopefully this attempt at articulation and differentiation of my original inquiry helps with some potential responses. Thank you for any help. -- Chad Avalon
A4 Maybe she's an INFp and you're mistaking for , it's pretty easy to do, especially when blinded by your hidden agenda. They don't call it 'illusionary' relations for nothing. -- Anonymous
A5 you write like an INTp, unfortunately. -- Anonymous
A6 She could actually be an ISFj. I am an ENTp, I've had a serious relationship with an ISFj, and the relationship dynamic/behaviour you described sounds a lot like what I went through: "She just doesn't seem to like me even though she says she does." -> She expresses her affection in an alien manner, probably. Not to say it's not there, but in my case, it wasn't what I had expected or hoped for. "I can eventually get her to talk about things but it just seems I want so much more affection and intimacy than she does." -> I went through that *exact* same thing. Exactly. I wanted gestures, mainly for her to take the initiative in expressing affection, but what I didn't understand was that she was using actions to communicate with me. Actions and intentions. Also, she didn't seem to give words too much credit, which would result in her feeling something but not saying it until I asked. I'm not quite sure how exactly it works, but here's my theory: as ENTps, we have the hidden agenda of being loved, correct? So at some point in any relationship, we need that to be manifested in order to trust in the relationship and trust in the other person. An ISFj's hidden agenda, however, is to believe; and so I found that my ex-ISFj-girlfriend would accentuate actions speaking for themselves and "tests" of the relationship because she wanted to gauge the relationship in terms of how "authentic" it was (so she could believe in it). This may be a horrible misinterpretation of Hidden Agendas and Socionics everywhere, so it would be beneficial to have someone with authority and experience give this response a once-over, but I've thought a lot about this theory and I think there's some validity to it. I also believe you and your ISFp/ISFj are having the same relations I had with my ex, so even if I'm misusing the terminology, I'm sure that you will find something useful in this post. Good luck with everything, and don't forget to stay on your toes! -- Norwegian Wood
A7 here is the problem: people think that when they find a dual they like, everything is going to work out and they will be perfect soul mates and they will live happily ever after. remember that the relations fall apart if the two duals aren't looking for the same thing. maybe you're smothering her. maybe she feels to young to settle down. maybe she has a crush on another entp. because you're duals you should be able to work through your problems, but that doesn't mean that you're only going to sleep each other and no one else forever. no matter what type you are, the only way to find out what's really going on is to talk to her about your concerns. what sounds more frightening, a break up (you can always find another isfp) or a prolonged relationship with no fire left, where no one is really getting what they want? remember 9.9 out of 10 relationships end in break ups, even with duality involved. who knows, talking to her might actually strengthen your relationship. either way it's worth the risk. -- Anonymous
A8 have a ENTP friend,...while we where flat mates he was (& still is) busy dating this ISFP. the problem u relate, sounds similar. all i can add, is that u will have success in these tactical phases....this ISFP thing sounds very similar. to win the tactical phases, u will have to keep onto your type predisposition FIRMLY... ignore the over-generalizing advise (if u thru considering it, and drawing the contigency plans obviously). the danger lies in the overall strategic phase,...ur ENTP tac predispositions will win out, but if your internal conversation is not all there, u may end up taxing the Emotional Latency of the ISFP overlly. (really, the things of affection and hiding and baiting in that non-descript ISFP manner,....well i have seen it before,..i have sympathy for your situation...but u where made for such things, such battles are where your life and heart is formed) @sirac!_who_that id__t again? -- Anonymous
A9 HAHA! WHAT?? You want more affection an intimacy than she does?? OK well if she's in love with you then she'll want just as much affection and intimacy as you or even more, TRUST ME! It just takes us ISFp/ISFPs a while before we decide whether we wanna go that route or not. OH and another thing!...this happens a lot....a lot of the time it APPEARS that we don't care as much as we really do...if she says she cares I bet she does. -- ISFp/ISFP
A10 I'm an ISFP female and I think you just have to be patient with us. It takes me a bit of time to work up the courage to initiate affection (physical and verbal). You just have to wait for it and constantly express yours in the meantime. If someone was to ask me for affection it would totally kill it for me because I would feel it wasn't spontaneous and then I'd think that you'd think I was only expressing affection because you asked me to. Does that make sense? -- Anonymous
A11 A10, yes I understand. I myself think the ISFP needs to receive a lot of well meant love before they can tell whether its the true love (which they really value and enjoy) or not (in which case it hurts their feelings badly). Being so vulnerable the ISFP uses her value-system to "check" the impulses send to them. Although this is a very subjective way to check it, its probably the only way an ISFP dares to trust on... Am I seeing this right? Note that I am talking about females only, I dont have any knowledge about male ISFPs. -- An INTP
A12 @A11: I have no clue what you're talking about. Using my value system to check my impulses? -- ISFp
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A13 OMG, haha i act exactly like that w/ my bf. nah she'z def ISFP. and i think ur ENTP. im not sure why we act the way we do. dont force us and ask us why. well open up on our own. -- **ISFP**
A14 Give the girl space!!!! I've grown up with/gone to art school with/dated plenty of ISFp's and they enjoy casual, goofy, spontaneous interactions. As an introvert girl, I've had a few experiences where an extrovert guy aggressively pursued me and it was a major turn off. Make sure the time you spend with her is fun -- INFp
A15 I'm an ISFp female and I would rather show somebody I like them rather than talking about it. If I like someone, I can go an extra (thousand) miles for that person. Also, I would want to be physically intimate with that person all the time (hugs, holding hands, kisses), not smothering though. So, if she doesn't like physical intimacy, it can mean either she's not ISFp or she's not that into you (even when I'm not into someone, I still like the physical intimacy, my friend refers me as a hug-aholic). I love to have laugh and make others laugh, the more we're comfortable with you, the more we want to spend time with you. -- ISFp
A16 As an ENTP, go with the flow, and if the flow don't go, figure out why. If you absolutely in love with this girl then stop asking questions. However, I'm not certain she's ISFP. Is she an alpha? Is life meant to be optimistic and fun for her? However, my male ISFP friend is on a questioning stage right now, so its not too farfetched. -- Anonymous
*Please note that the opinions expressed are not necessarily those of socionics.com*
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