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Question #1175855141Friday, 6-Apr-2007
Category: ENFp ISTj Relationship Benefit and Supervision Intertype Relations
I am an ENFP who often has co-workers who are ISTJ's. My biggest frustration is my inability to communicate effectively with them. Often it seems they do not see "the big picture" and get mired in too many details. They come across as bossy and it seems like they think I am stupid. Please help me understand how I can make these relationships more productive and less stressful. -- JB
Your Answers: 1+ 23+
A1 One of the problems of Socionics is that it creates the false belief that we are bound to communicate better or worse with some types. It is true that communication with certain types can be difficult, however if you have confidence in your ability to communicate excellently with anyone irregardless of their type then you'll eventually find your problem solved. Never forget that we as people are more than our types, types are secondary aspects only. -- Anonymous
A2 @A1. Socionics is not "let's pretend that everything is fine" type of study, otherwise there would be no emphasis on intertype relations. Oh yes, the incompatible types create BIG problem in a relationship. The interaction between types is mechanical and has nothing to do with interaction between personalities. You can choose to believe that there are no problems, but it will not make them go away, just to postpond them. People who suffer from reumatoid arthritis feel the pain so often that they got used to be in pain. What you suggest is to accept the fact that there are incompatible types and forget about it. Why, for the heavens sake, why, if you can actually do something about it? You're trying to sound positive by not addressing the problem - when you're slapped on one cheek, turn the other, right? I will say to you - crap... you very much for your advice, now move along, sir, move along. -- Dr. Zoidberg
A3 @A2 Then how do you explain the countless examples of failed relationships of duality, and the examples of conflicting partners who are getting along fine. If we surrender to believing ourselves helpless in dealing with others due to our types then that's the ultimate failure. I did not wish to respond to you but instead of criticising those who are trying to help, why don't you try and come up with a better advice yourself, sheesh. -- A1
A4 ROFL ROFL ROFL What countless failed relationship of duality, what conflicting relationships heavens? How did you come up with it, by reading what other people say? You can't be serious, right? Half of the messages here on Q&A are posted by people who didn't go past the personality test they took somewhere on the web. The half of the other half got one or both types wrong. Do you think it is so easy to correctly establish your own type and the type of your spouse? Just give me a break, will you, this Q&A is a joke, they even put a disclaimer on it, duh. -- Dr. Zoidberg
A5 Just because some couples are duals that does not render their relationships immune from break-ups. -- redlight
A6 I understand you. I am an ESFP and most of my colleagues and relations are ISTJ. I used to have really many problems with them. Now I have learned to talk less than normally in their presence, try to plan things in advance, be as accurate as possible, to be compassionate and respectful. At first it was hard, but now it is getting better and they gradually start even to appreciate my flexibility, sense of humour and imagination. But it takes time and effort. Maybe it is more difficult in your case, as you are N, but still I hope my experience can help you a little bit. Try to explain the "big picture" as minutely as possible to them Keeping fingers crossed for you! -- Marta
A7 You have precisely identified your communication problem with ISTj's. ISTj's do not as a rule see the big picture. It is the greatest weakness of their type. If want to establish permanently bad relations with an ISTj snipe at him for not being able to "see the big picture." Whereas big picture point of view is a weakness of the ISTj it is your type's, ENFp, greatest strength. However, your own weakness is analytical thinking, which just happens to be the ISTj's greatest strength. If you truly want to know how to communicate better with an ISTj, realize that an ISTj is the most practical of people. Don't present him with a plethora of "what-if's." The ISTj is very good at sorting out what will work from what won't, and has probably discarded any option he sees as impractical immediately. Also if you keep revisting alternatives that the ISTj has already ruled out that will only serve to irritate him. 1. Speak of facts, 2. If you have an idea, have a plan to implement it, and 3. Realize that from the ISTj's POV what you call "mired in detail" to him is vitally important. The reason you think they're bossy is because they are. The focus of an ISTj's personality is management of the day-to-day operations of systems and organizations, and the business world loves them for it. Indeed the corporate persona of many who are not naturally ISTj is ISTj. -- Anonymous
A8 I'm an ENFP (male) MARRIED to an ISTJ (woman). You think working with one is hard? Try living with one! I call her the General. SHE wears the pants in our family. Or is it a uniform in our regiment? Sex is whenever SHE's in the mood, Which isn't anywhere near as often as I would prefer. Romance or anything spontanious is out of the question. Bright side is that she's a full time stay at home Mom that manages to keep our bills paid even AFTER I blow a wad on some rediculous half-baked idea. I choose to believe that when she does laugh, that it's with me and not at me. Talk less, work more and act like your'e a private in their Army and you'll do just fine. -- Barry G
A9 I disagree with several statements above, foremost of which is "this Q&A is a joke." It's one of my favorite places on the web and I don't think it's a joke. ISTjs are probably the 'sensing' type most able to see the big picture. People usually do type each other and themselves incorrectly when they are still learning about type but if you're serious about V.I. and socionics typing you will improve. And yes, I have had trouble with dual relationships, including a dual supervisor. People are more than their types but are also their types. -- econdude
A10 ISTJ and "Big-Picture shouldn't even be used in the same sentence. Hmmm...Thats an oxymoron in itself, isn't it? Anyway, ISTJ Couldn't see the "Big-Picture" if you painted on the end of their nose or on the side of a barn for that matter. If you want to test this, find a sensor (especially an ISTJ) and start a discussion concerning A long range big picture type subject and watch what happens. -- Barry G
A11 This is pure comedy. Not to offend anyone, but I have to question the big picture seeing capacity of anyone who's constantly blowing off "What if...?" remarks without ever analyzing "Indeed! What if?" -- INTj guy -- Anonymous
A12 Nowhere does socionics claim that duals do not break up. It says they exchange information and interact in a certain way. How this translates into what people call a "relationship" can differ widely. I don't know why people keep saying that "duals aren't supposed to break up" or that if duals don't get married and live happily ever after, that that somehow devalues socionics. -- Anonymous
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A13 Personal intelligence determines one's ability to see the "big picture." Type determines which picture a person is likely to see. At least, this is a politically correct, socionics-based answer...taking all types as "on the level" a priori. -- Anonymous
A14 Sorry, didn't give an example: For example: The ISTj may see the big picture most ideally with regard to logistics, and calculate accordingly, perhaps perfectly in that regard, but run into disappointment because he/she had miscalculated certain elements of "human" behavior, that ultimately resulted in a loss of "team morale" and a downing in overall productivity. The ENFp may see the part about team morale, but not bother working out the logistics of their new plans, or may not be so good at doing this. Again as according to socionics, productive "compromises" or meaningful cooperation are only possible when two people share the same "temperament." This is what happens if we lay the "socion" flat over the whole of the "social" reality and take it literally. Make a single exception (like and ENFp-ISTj match that works) and you have may as well scrap the whole system. Additionally, this does not imply that the system should be could still be very scrap-worthy. -- Anonymous
A15 If certain details are important to your ISTJ co-workers, maybe showing more of an interest in them would help you to better explain your big picture in a context they might understand. -- Anonymous
A16 Sensors like details. Use details to your advantage -- DustBunny
A17 I'm an ENFP, have an ISTJ manager (just like JB,) an ISTJ *wife,* (exactly like Barry G) and an ENFP daughter..! Coming home is exactly the same feeling as going to work. Heeeelp! America is practically _made_ for STJs! -- LK
A18 LK, How do you cope!? -- Anonymous
A19 ENFP here and I find them incredibly frustrating!!!! Don't respond toa lot of what I say and definetly see me as stupid, say I make a mistake of where a place is, they will correct me in a really condenscending tone, which really bugs me. If I satyed around an ISTJ too long I'd explode with frustration and give them my wrath of anger, which would break their cool ITness I reckon!! They really are an unfriendly lot, but if you want help with work they're the ppl to go to.... (Although thts probs ISTP/INTP I'm thinking of) -- ENFP
A20 ISTjs don't mean to hurt anyone, nor do they think people are stupid, rather they just want to understand why people do things the way they do. An ISTj wants nothing more than to do the best possible job they can for everyone, and with that recessive Fe, they just want to take care of people. So they may struggle with understanding how other people work, and that may be interpreted by some as a negative, but ultimately, their intent is nothing other than to do a 100% good job. They ultimately want nothing more than to take of things for people. We all relate to people in our different ways; cut the ISTjs some understanding and some slack. -- Anonymous
A21 Im an ENFP male and Im in the military. So I can empathise with you guys when you refer to istj types a the "General". These people dominate the military and they drive me nuts for the most part, but A20 is right because I was talking to one of these people who happens to be in charge of my command today and I basically asked him why he was always such a hard@$$ and he said the exact same thing. -- Dude
A22 I don't like SJ types. Why in the world does society consist of so many of them. -- Anonymous
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