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| Question #1134432848 | Tuesday, 13-Dec-2005 |
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| Yet another question on dual relations. Reading up on the profile for my dual (ESFP) I can appreciae the general concept behind the theory (the weaknesses of one are the strengths of the other, etc.) In an ideal world these two types would come to acommodate one another and become dualized. On paper it seems fine, but I don't see how it could be applied to the real world. For example: From what I'm reading ESFPs are high-energy people who actively seek out stimulation and new experiences. This is a weakness for INTPs who can become very pedantic and unmotivated. ESFps are rarely pessimistic, INTps are rarely not pessimistic. INTps seek rationality, ESFps are highly irrational and fickle. It seems like instead of trying to complete one another they would quickly grow tired of their differences-although not as quickly as out-and-out opposite types might-and simply end the relationship. I'd think that an ESFp would rightfully become bored with the INTps aloof behavior and negative attitude. As an INTp the description of ESFps reminded me of a lot of former coworkers who were more loud, in-your-face, bouncy, walking headaches to me than pleasant company. I don't think I could be around someone like that for very long and I don't imagine an INTp would sound very appealing to an ESFp, no matter how similar our individual tastes. Perhaps I'm not fully understanding the mechanics that would want to keep these divergent personalities comming back for more rather than going at each other's throats or simply looking elsewhere. -- Anonymous |
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| A34 A33: As for me, I answered this partly in the discussion How do SF women see Rationals? at this site. To me, hanging out with an INTp friend is the most natural thing to do. What I like in them is their level-headedness and the ability to analyse the situations I only see and don't understand, and generally to provide me with an insight (some INTp mentioned here that ESFps like INTps to decide for them. In my case, I like to decide myself, but sometimes need an INTp or at least a Te analysis to be able to decide well). That they aren‘t bothered by my overenthusiastic way of speaking and wildly changing facial expressions (because that makes other people nervous). That they don't get tired of me feeding them new information, impressions and things (as I need to do that a lot). That I needn’t be afraid of offending them. That I can strive to be as logical as possible around them and they still won’t think I‘m too nerdy and not feminine enough. That I can be good-humouredly aggressive and ironic around them, because anyway, their calmness neuters my aggressivity to a great degree, so it comes out as great fun rather than a faux pas. That they are really democratic in nature. That they all seem good-looking to me. That those of them who are Christian have helped my faith a lot. Some INTps sometimes get on my nerves but theirs is also the biggest percentage in the number of people I really respect by both my heart and brains. (If you were interested in reading more about a specific ESFp-INtp relationship, I suggest reading C.S.Lewis's The Grief Observed. It's sad, but for me, it's the highlight of an ESFp-INTp realtionship.) Well there would be quite a couple of things to mention yet, but I don’t want to fill up all the Answers space. Maybe you could post this as a new question? And one question from me: are you sure you are an INTp in Socionics? You write INTP with capital letters which suggests you are dealing with the MBTI typology? -- Ezis (ESFp) |
| A35 I´m cusrious about what I should do in a situation that is described in post A28? Where the male INTp is in love with a promiscous female ESFp. -- Anonymous |
| A36 " Yet another question on dual relations..." I think duality is real and is the best especially between intp and esfp! I am an intp female and I really like this esfp male and we are in high school, so it is probably really weird for an intp to like an esfp when he is supposed to be really immature. I feel really comfortable being myself around him - usually I feel really awkward or bored with most people - even other intellectual types. He likes to flirt with me and compliment me. I think he's told his friends that he wants to be with me, but he doesn't approach me about it. It makes me withdraw from him. I reject his flirtations, return his intense gaze with looks of boredom and I ignore his smiles because I want him to ask me out. Does this make sense? I feel like when I was being nice to him, smiling encouragingly and awkwardly flirting back, it didn't get me the results that I wanted, so I am not nice anymore. I thought that doing this would call him to take action! Now I am worried that this approach is too harsh to actually work. I notice that with him, I am not sure at all if I am a good person. It's almost as if we are competing to get what we want from each other. He is trying to manipulate me and I him. Why be mean? Why play games? I don't know, but I know that I enjoy it and I know he does too. Anyway, I can totally see how intps and esfps can have good relationships. When I decided that I liked him and read more about esfps, I wasn't too surprised to find out that we'd be almost perfect for each other. "On paper it seems fine, but I don't see how it could be applied to the real world." I think that it would probably be easy to manage being in a relationship with him. We wouldn't need to fight, because I would not be interested in having an irrational and emotional argument. I usually avoid debating with irrational and emotional people - takes the fun and learning out of it. Likely, I would just solve the problem on my own. Just this fact should make a relationship easier. If I need him to do something for me and he doesn't want to, I will use the fact that he is jealous and territorial to get him to do what I want by asking another guy to do it for me. This strategy would work with him because of his jealousy (I'm assuming that most esfps are jealous) and because he will see it as only fair that I find a way to get what I want and so he will be jealous, but not angry with me and this will prompt him to do what I want (the esfps I know are usually just even if they are naughty). He is territorial, but I doubt that he will believe that he actually owns me and I like this understanding. This is just an example of how we could solve problems without arguing and without anyone feeling cheated, abused and unsatisfied. With esfps, they can fight and be defiant. Nobody tells mine how to dress, when to shut up (he is very disruptive in class and often gets into arguments with the teacher) or what to do at all. Another type may either be crushed by his intimidating dominance or fight and directly compete with him - which would be useless, especially since he is a guy and he wants to be dominant, this may be true for female esfps too. He either uses brute force or charm to get what he wants and maybe this works for him. I as an intp am not so defiant. I am more interested in solving the problem than in asserting my dominance -interacting with ideas and systems rather than people. This means that I won't nag and argue "why won't you do this for me?" No. I probably wouldn't even be offended. Instead of fighting and losing (or worse winning and hurting his ego) or fighting and reaching the over-rated compromise, I would solve the problem and get what I want everytime. This would make us both happy. Granted, I don't find most of the esfps I know attractive (although I can tell they are attracted to me). I used to think that it was my looks and that they probably are super hedonistic guys that would appreciate any girl when they are horny (which was probably all the time), but I've changed my mind. Maybe they are just better at sensing duality than me and I think that they are less hedonistic than we intps first like to think. "I'd think that an ESFp would rightfully become bored with the INTps aloof behavior and negative attitude." On the contrary, this is what excites him about me. He enjoys the thrill of the chase. He enjoys drawing people out. I am naturally aloof so he will always chase me and try to draw me out when I am focused on my own things. I think that he values that I am aloof - I am not as easily accessible to him as most people are. I was not that interested in romantic relationships, the way some other types are. Unlike another girl who would just fall for his charm and do whatever she can to please him, I want him to try and please me. Sometimes, I am not even aware of him, so he has to try and get my attention.This way, he can be sure that he is deserving of the affection given to him. He can be sure that I love him and not the idea of having a man. In his mind, you have to earn love or else it isn't real. If I were less elusive, he would probably think "Why do you love me? You don't love me. You love love." With me, he knows that I love him because he has to make me love him. I don't see how I could get bored of him. He is so thrilling, exciting, exhilarating. He is so attentive to my feelings. It is so nice being around him that I often forget my "negative attitude" for a while. I simply enjoy him. He is not obnoxious. He is genuinely interested in having conversations with people- not just in talking and yapping his head off. He likes rationality, logic and analysis. We were reading a novel in class. It's a very small class and we are all used to each other so I don't feel shy to speak up. Whenever I offered my opinions (criticism) of the book he appreciated it and really enjoyed it. He liked the way I analytically exposed all the plot holes and devices. He doesn't think that I am boring or too opinionated. He thinks that I am great. I don't want to ruin things and I won't. Yes, I am critical, but I will only criticise ideas, notions, assumptions and sometimes strategy. I won't criticise the way he performs especially if he does poorly. I will only encourage him. If do this, I'm sure that we will be happy. However, that's only if we get together... -- Anonymous |
| A37 One has to assess duality on the basis of need - not desires, attractiveness, sexuality, pet peeves or any other irritation. One may often not want what they truly need - like I need to save money but I prefer to spend. -- Anonymous |
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| A38 I am an intp and my partner is an esfp. . At first the relationship was bumpy and I had lots of doubts. But just like the description, every bump we overcame, the closer we got. I considered quitting a lot. But now, I would recommend everybody seek their dual partner. Tips for getting a female esfp: they know a lot about motives and intentions, so the less superficial you act, the more they like you. The less you try to keep them, the more they will want you. Try to pretend you have no morals at all. Male esfp: pretend you have high moral standards and don't give anything up until you know they aren't trying to use you. These are things I've learned from my mother and husband. Both are esfps -- Beatrice |
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