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| Question #1134432848 | Tuesday, 13-Dec-2005 |
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| Yet another question on dual relations. Reading up on the profile for my dual (ESFP) I can appreciae the general concept behind the theory (the weaknesses of one are the strengths of the other, etc.) In an ideal world these two types would come to acommodate one another and become dualized. On paper it seems fine, but I don't see how it could be applied to the real world. For example: From what I'm reading ESFPs are high-energy people who actively seek out stimulation and new experiences. This is a weakness for INTPs who can become very pedantic and unmotivated. ESFps are rarely pessimistic, INTps are rarely not pessimistic. INTps seek rationality, ESFps are highly irrational and fickle. It seems like instead of trying to complete one another they would quickly grow tired of their differences-although not as quickly as out-and-out opposite types might-and simply end the relationship. I'd think that an ESFp would rightfully become bored with the INTps aloof behavior and negative attitude. As an INTp the description of ESFps reminded me of a lot of former coworkers who were more loud, in-your-face, bouncy, walking headaches to me than pleasant company. I don't think I could be around someone like that for very long and I don't imagine an INTp would sound very appealing to an ESFp, no matter how similar our individual tastes. Perhaps I'm not fully understanding the mechanics that would want to keep these divergent personalities comming back for more rather than going at each other's throats or simply looking elsewhere. -- Anonymous |
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| A14 everyone has been concisely valuable on this page...thanx to the namers like Ezis and iAnnAu. A4,6, econdude and ian. i have noticed some tendencies here when people speak about duals...for instance...ISFPs targetting ESFJs and disputing the dual thing. Perhaps it is so, that while these people accurately target in-situ, the S_P too S_J actually is a 'preceptual whable'...it is easily imagined that S-J for those is actually NTP...for they forget core things...like that J-P timings are wholely dis-similar, and as such such things have the fastest extinguishment times. 'In-situ' they focus on a preceptually expressed vector, and as such too, the iSfP(i.e.ESFJ)..might actually be for them...'s'-having same evolution of person, 'j'-while not being offensive to F, still having an expressible communication vector they sense..which is Tp, but which they class Fj. So that is now finished. it was not worth my time to post there, if they believe it, let them...i just thought i might post where it is actually of value to me an intp, that on a ESFP page. A11 and A12 are idiots. if these guys are real INTPs, they would find that there Rational currency (they mean T-world, not socionics J-world) is soon burned up in T-realm, much like ESFPs burn up there currency in S-realm. as such, both are very much on there own. Oh, the reason, not often heard, of why an INTP is similar to the esfp in there own space is this. As intps are very perceptual people, amongst other thinkers, in a 'rational speaking place as A11 and A12 talk', it is not easy for other thinkers to be 'unoffended by INTPs'. this is because INTPs can't easily hide there cognition on small process errors. (which is why i have noticed in this world, that entps and intps atleast try and 'stay along'- because none wants to fall behind, and each of these people with there pocket of knowledge tends to lay a hand on a bright future). So, my mirror theory stays relevant, it is sames, but from opposite spectrums. i would probably, if our aims where not the same, destroy ESFPs in my work, or bring them on board, otherwise, it has never been wise to date from work, so why is this a problem, in life intps need esfps -- @sirac |
| A15 My type is intp/infp/entp - defnitely an NP. My husband is an ESFP. We share many common interests and have been together 16 yrs. He pursued me. But there has been problems - we avoid conflict - everything is like "friends" in that we both need/want our autonomy, but do not come together on an intimate level. We have stayed together, (he seems happy), b/c it is just comfortable. He thought I was "jealous" at one time of his job - what he doesn't understand is at the end of the day - (although he is well-read and has the concrete "S" about him), he doesn't understand me and I think I "get more stuff" than he does on an intuitive level. Having someone you think is less "intelligent," especially as a woman is tough. -- Anonymous |
| A16 Your post has been really thought-provoking, and a very painful topic, for me, too, as I'm interested in an INTp guy who's extremely intellectual and I'm afraid I might be not sufficiently intelligent for him. But that's not the point. I was thinking about your post and here are the results: - Your description reminds me of an ESFp-INTp "steady water" relationships I have experienced myself, though not in a romantic relationship. One of the problems was my INTp friends didn't know how to tell me they are not satisfied with this "steady water" state, but fortunately I recognized that myself. I learned how to provoke them in joke, and somehow, the lack of intimity and open conflict vanished. However, it took some time. - The ESFp-INTp couples I know who don't have this kind of problem are those who have learned to half-argue, half-have-fun about the issues in their relationship. Btw, my INTp grandma has the same problem with her INTp husband, so I gather this is not a question of type. - It's interesting that you should write "having someone you think is less "intelligent". You don't write "having someone less intelligent", does that mean that you know he's intelligent but perhaps not in the way you are (or need him to be), or that he's intelligent but doesn't know how to present his intelligence? - You also write "he doesn't understand me". IMO, you should forget about the idea that there can be understanding without open and patient communication. People will always understand some part of you implicitly and need to communicate about the other parts. ESFps' need to be understood is usually minuscule compared to INs', that's why your husband probably doesn't sense this need in you. But there is great potential in the ESFp-INTp relation, and I think if you thought about what would make you happier and talked about it with him, the steady water might get whirled up a bit. ESFps' type of intelligence helps them when they are confronted with a task: they mobilize every single molecule of their body to manage the task perfectly. Simplistically put, where there is no specific task, there is no strength and no intelligence. ESFps can become theologic scholars if they decide their local congregation needs living up, they can become great musicologists after their brother's band needed a guitarist. If you both take it as your task to liven up your relationship there is a big chance you will succeed. - And the last thing, you might be interested in an article on dual relationships at socionics.us. One of the notions in it is that, in dual relationships, each partner takes care of the areas of their primary and secondary function. It is therefore natural for your husband to take care of the SF part of your relationship - the pursuing, as you write, the comfort, the friendly atmosphere. But it is you who should take care of the NT part. If I am not mistaken your husband actually needs it. We ESFps usually have deep thoughts and have a need of complex conversation on abstract topics, but as our N and T aren't our strongest functions we don't know how to start and keep such a conversation. It is also possible that your husband gets as much as you on an intuitive level but is not able to present it. So if you go for open confrontation and open communication, he might get confused or offended at first, but might realize this is actually the right thing after some time as well. For him, it might also be an opportunity for the ESFp struggle with their dislike of criticism and conflict that every ESFp should go through in their life. - Well, I hope it was not too difficult to read through all this stuff and that I was at least of some help. -- Ezis (ESFp) |
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| A17 I find the INTp attitude towards those it deems "less intelligent" to be somewhat of a contemptible one in itself. Not intelligent enough by who's standards? Like most INTp's who are not intelligent enough to read a map to see where he's going? -- Anonymous |
| A18 I (esfp)have had a 30 year friendship with an intp and we were fascinate by each other from the first moment and remain so 30 years later. my boss was intp also and we found we worked very well together. I would promote the company and act as the 'face' of the company that he built on his invenstions. we both took care of each other and watched each others back. In both cases we shared the same sense of humor. I am an intellectual esfp who sometimes tests as enfp. -- Anonymous |
| A19 i don't agree with a lot of the dual relationships. the biggest thing is that they are all s/n matches. i can see a intp with an enfp, but not an esfp. not always, but i think sensors and intuitives just don't get what they need from each other. also, i think judgers and perceivers can work well too. like A15 said Perceivers want autonomy, but 2 Ps together can be distant. It makes intimacy hard. -- Anonymous |
| A20 there are many different kinds of intps and esfps and not all will get along. -- woodrow |
| A21 Um... I am an ESFP, and I am dating an INTP.... hahaha. It's funny to read all of this because it's so true, alot of what your saying. But I would never give up on my INTP lover. I care too much for them. I've been with them for almost three years and it is rough sometimes, but there are the great times that remind me why I love them so much. So far so good, we're defying logic eh? -- An Anonymous ESFP. |
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