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Question #1126672472Wednesday, 14-Sep-2005
Category: Theory
How does birth order personality theory (a la Alfred Adler) fit with Socionics? -- Andre - INTj
Your Answers: 1+
A1 Kevin Leman wrote a book called The New Birth Order Book, which has nothing to do with the MBTI/Socionics, but he is an excellent, approachable source for birth order. I believe that birth order has no influence on a person's psychological preferences because the preferences are genetically predetermined. Anyone can turn around and say they believe psychological preferences are entirely sociologically determined, and I don't know how to prove one or the other. INTJs tend to be first born, for example, but this does not prove that their type is not genetically predetermined. -- econdude
A2 I think that the only connection would be related to the controversy between whether nature or nurture condition us to be who we are. Environmental factors surely play a part in shaping how we see the world, such as our sense of independence or dependence upon others, our confidence in our leadership abilities, etc... So this question, I think, is best stated as "Is the type environmentally generated, or is it set at birth?" -- Anonymous
A3 I highly recommend that book. Birth order falls into the "environment" category and is highly variable (birth order of parent; special needs children; level of discipline; and other things influence upbringing as well). Basically, where you are in a family helps determine your personality because certain factors will be involved; i.e., a first-born will act more like a little adult because his parents are his only role-models. A youngest tends to be the "attention-seeker". My little brother and sister are fairly classic examples of birth order theory. -- Kanerou
A4 Easily. I don't see why elder, middle or younger child characteristics would have an affect on socionic type or socionic relations? -- Westie
A5 All I could find on WikiPedia: INTJ: first born: Cuba Gooding Jr- Jerry O'Connell-Jill Hennessey (twins) Second born: Carrie Ann Moss Only child: Sigourney Weaver-George Lucas-James Hetfield-Mako Iwamatsu-Mario Bello-Richard Pryor ENTP: First born: Richard Feynman Second born: Jamie Lee Curtis(middle child)-Guy Ritchie Only child: David Schwimmer-Dick Van Dyke-Michael Parkinson-Jason Flemyng-Salma Hayek ISFP: First born: Jessica Biel Second born: Kirk Hammet-Sarah Chalke (middle child) Only child: Matt LeBlanc-Kenneth Connor-Jean Reno-Julie Delpy ESFJ: Only child: Bjork-Geri Halliwell-Julia Louis Dreyfus-Julie Walters-Samaire Armstrong Second born: Eddie Murphy My findings suggest birth order determines success, as there is a constant majority of only childs represented, regardless of socionic type. However, I'd discredit myself and question this compliation, as WikiPedia is not a reliant source. I searched for birth order and sometimes it was exact, othertimes, siblings were mentioned without birth order, and sometimes unmentioned siblings meant no siblings, so only children, or so I assume. Also sometimes biograhies were short of details and also, to my discredit, I did not look through all ENTP celebrity profiles nor all 16 socionic types. Lastly, I'm a I(n)Tj and am born fourth of five. However I was the youngest for six years. I've heard personality is developed by age five, so by that age I had developed as the youngest, that is to say I had adopted the characteristics of the youngest. I consider this a topic for debate. Any thoughts? -- Anonymous
A6 *nods* I am a middle child as far as age goes; however, I'm still the oldest female, and my mother did not marry my stepfather until I was six, which means my birth order personality as an only child was already shaped. I was the youngest for nearly three years before the next kid, but I'm still a first-born female either way. My sister, who is nine years younger than I, is a pretty typical first born. Combine that with her _SFJ (MB) type...We tell her she'll make a good mother some day. We also have joked that the next (and last) in line *needed* three "mothers"; he is a Sanguine/Choleric, possible SF youngest. Definite Se battles there (despite being weak in it, I'll rise to the occasion where he's concerned). I believe that birth order influences our personality, and IM type is not necessarily the be-all, end-all of how we act. It's a component. -- Kanerou
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A7 I'm an ENTP youngest. I have a friend who is an ENTP oldest. ...Isn't type genetic? -- Anonymous
A8 @A5 Bjork seems much more like INFP than ESFJ, even though she's typed that way in the celebs section on this site. -- Anonymous
*Please note that the opinions expressed are not necessarily those of*
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