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Question #1123047414Wednesday, 3-Aug-2005
Category: ISTp
Does the soconics "ISTP" type correlate with the MBTI "ISTP" because the profiles seem simalair? -- Robert
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A1 Yes and no. -- d-_-b
A2 Can you elaborate further? -- Robert
A3 The dominant and auxilary functions of the MBTI ISTP (introverted thinking and extraverted sensing) correspond to the first and second functions of the socionics ISTJ. However, the tertiary and inferior functions of the MBTI ISTP (introverted intuition and extraverted feeling) correspond to the third and fourth functions of the socionics ISTP. So the socionics ISTP does correlate with the MBTI ISTP, but in a limited way since the MBTI ISTP is a sort of composite of the socionics types ISTP and ISTJ. -- Anonymous
A4 Tests try to determine type by broad strokes (i/e, t/f, etc) instead of by function so if you test ISTp you may not be ISTp. In addition to this MB profiles seem to "mix" descriptions of people who are SiTe and TiSe because each can test as ISTp. Profiles will never be perfect so it is best to try to understand what the functions (and the way they interact with each other) mean. Try doing a search for "model A socionics" in google or something so you can find out more about what roles the functions play in personality. -- ptl
A5 I just want to add that ISTps can find it very difficult to determine their type due to their versatile ability to change and if someone tests ISTp then there is a good chance they are ISTp. When someone tests ISTj there is a good chance they could be ISTp as well, similar to INTj/INTp problem. -- Dr Zoidberg
A6 Try asking yourself what holds more natural appeal for you, a comfortable living/working environment? or status and prestige? If the former you're more likely ISTp, but if the latter then ISTj. Also forget about trying to correlate the two systems. Myers-Briggs made the foundational assumption that extroversion is "normal;" implying of course that introversion is abnormal. To Myers-Briggs the J/P preference is merely an indicator that specifies whether a standard extrovert externalizes their preferred rational function, T or F. If one is a J then one externalizes one's rational function, or if a P then one internalizes it. Further Myers-Briggs assumed that this convention held for introverts as well: that introverted J people "extrovert" their rational function and introverted P people do not. Thus under M-B typology an ISTP is a "rational" person and an ISTJ is not. This is because one's E/I preference under M-B typology determines one's lead function. Hence ISTP's lead with introverted thinking, according to Myers-Briggs, and are thus rational; ISTJ's lead with introverted sensing and are thus irrational. Socionics and Myers-Briggs are different because socionics assumes that "j" implies one's lead function is rational, T or F, whereas "p" implies one's lead function is irrational, S or N. Whether the quality of that lead function is extroverted or introverted is still a matter of one's E/I preference. -- metroGnome
A7 THis is strange, than how come ISTJ description of socionics is almost identical to description of MBTI ISTJ? The same goes for ISTP. -- Anonymous
A8 @A7. It depends if it's a functional description the types or description of a person who is introverted, sensing, thinking and judging/perceiving. The functional descriptions differ. -- INTp
A9 A3 has the right idea. Empirically (i.e. IRL), MBTI ISTP's are a closer match to the Socionics ISTj description, but not point-for-point since the 3rd & 4th functions differ. If your person is a closer fit to the ISTj description (especially if somewhat docile & compromising, charming humor, enjoys discussions about philosophy/morality/relationships), then they are MBTI ISTP. If they are a closer fit to the ISTp description (especially in regard to keeping people at arms length, cynicism, need to hurt others, and using people as tools/instruments for their own purposes), they are ISTJ. When using the "Intertype Relations" tool, switch these types to get a (mostly) accurate result; input ISTp for an ISTJ, and ISTj for an ISTP. (Yes, this is similar to the INTp/INTj issue when converting Socionics to MBTI). -- zenbrat
A10 If you look at small groups and Reinin dichotomies and compare them with the ground patterns for Keirsey's temperaments (with adds by Berens)for SJs (guardians) and SPs (artisans)you will see that ISTj fits with ISTJ and ISTp fits with ISTP. The solution is to be found in the fact that cognitive elements, particularly Si and Se (Fe and Fi too) DON'T have the same meaning in both systems. SiTe in one system and TiSe in the other system may explain exactly the same type! BTW in both systems (fanciful) type descriptions are often misleading. -- piccolo_michel
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