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| Questions & Answers |
| Question #1123047300 | Wednesday, 3-Aug-2005 |
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| I'd like to better understand the hidden agendas of both infp (to understand) and estp (to be loved). Here are the two questions you most often hear in our household. Infp wife: huh? I don't get it. Estp husband: Do you love me baaaby? It fascinates me how accurate this hidden agenda thing is, and I'd love to learn more. Thanks! =) -- yosa |
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| A1 According to the theory of hidden agendas the above example does not qualify as a hidden agenda. "I don't get it" says someone who is not afraid to openly admit own misunderstanding, "Do you love me baaaby?" says someone who already knows the answer and confident about what the answer is. Such expressions are often used by INTJs/ESFJs, ISTJs/ENFJs. -- d-_-b
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| A2
(The following is my own interpretation, and it may be a tad "out there" [like many from the16types.info influx recently], but consider it, and see how it works for you...) I don't know if a single phrase can be correlated to functions or types, since everyone has said phrases that disparage any and all of the functions in thier lifetime. Actually, the above about the INFp/ESTp pair seems to fit in quite nicely, if you think about it within the "quadra values" framework. The INFp finds it difficult to apprehend information about things that she cannot relate to personally (inanimate objects, Te), so she seeks a framework where everything can be simplified and related together (for example, don't carry all the things seperate [cuz yer hands are full], tie them all together with a rope, and drag the rope with you.) The ESTp finds it difficult to trust his vision of the interconnections of animate objects (Fi), and therefore seeks the "feeling" areas in an obvious and expressive fashion, where the feeling information is expressed clearly. (His rope is already "full" of matter Ti.) See "ESTp uncovered" about people actually expressing thier hidden agenda needs "semi-publicly". The "block" that the hidden agenda is in is supposedly the "I don't know that I can't do" block, so people could be somewhat oblivious to thier inabilities in these areas. An INFp finds it VERY uncomfortable to apply learning without understanding (i.e. "practical knowlege", things that "just are" because "they are") and the ESTp finds it VERY uncomfrotable to exist in a situation where the interpersonal relations are simply "understood" and not "expressed". So they try to seek the "flipside" of the coin. As an aside, I find that the NT types are the most stubborn to admit that they do not understand a concept, and F types will actually readily seek help more often in these areas. If I am WRONG (and it is indeed the other way around, where F types are actually the ones that will NOT admit that they are wrong, and I have mistyped) then we will soon be a world in shambles, because my conclusion was drawn from observing *engineers*, *scientists*, and *professors* from all across the country, most of whom would rather die then admit that they don't "get" something. (But then the objector has the problem of explaining how HIS "dumb NF type" have IQ's in the stratosphere...) No, I am not bitter from the opinions on this site : ) -- Smart F type = T in socionics?
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| A3
The example was simple and silly. Trying to be cute and funny but ended up innaccurate. Does someone out there understand the hidden agendas of INFP and ESTP? What expressions would be used by these types? How is their hidden agenda manifested? -- yosa
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| A4
I appreciate your interpretation very much. I do find it difficult to understand things that I don't have personal experience with and I do seek a framework where everything can be put together and simplified. You hit that on the nail. I usually end up making conclusions that are filled with my own biases! I hate it. I don't think I'll ever understand this world! =) THANKS AGAIN for your imput/input...however that's spelled. Estp husband says it's input. Gotta go, husband is throwing a tantrum 'cause I'm here typing and not showering with him. BYE! -- Anonymous |
| A5 They want what they can't express because in order to remain the type that they are(INFP or ESTP) they would have to REPRESS the half that "shows love"(INFJ) or the half that "shows understanding"(ESTJ. They seek out an unexpressed part of themselves in someone else. INFP chooses the temporary rose colored glasses, but you can't see the problem with rose colored glasses. And ESTP chooses the superficial thrill of the moment-too into listening to the sound of their own voice that they don't stop to listen to what they are actually feeling. You can't get what you don't give. That's why it's their hidden agenda. People can balance themselves but it requires intense effort and analytical skills. Which you gain through practice and discussions like this. Keep asking until you find the answer. You will get the answer, but the answer will have you asking more questions. -- Curious |
| A6 @A2, Why do you blatantly associate *engineers*, *scientists* and *professors* with NT or T types? I think you might have your own world in shambles already. -- Dr. Zoidberg |
A7 I'm an INFP. It is so difficult to meet a male ESTP(my dual partner). I would like to get to know one to see how that would be. I've been in such wrong relationships. Wish I could finally get it right. Is there a place on the net to meet male ESTP's?  -- marilyn |
A8 The hidden agenda of a given type is the functional opposite of the creative function of that type. In theory, functional opposites are mutually exclusive. A person is strong in one function only if (s)he is weak in the other. For an INFp the creative function is  , which implies that the hidden agenda is  . Ti, introverted thinking, is thinking that critically reasons "why" something is so. Thus to struggle against a weakness in Ti is to strive "to understand." Likewise, the creative function of an ESTp is , and thus that type's hidden agenda is . Fe, extraverted feeling, is to grasp the emotional contents of the external world. Evidently a weakness in Fe, leaves a person uncertain or unaware of the feelings of others. Thus striving to overcome this weakness would necessarily entail a desire to be "loved." -- Anonymous |
| A9 That is a very good description in A2. I'm an INFp and I apply concepts to my personal experience in order to understand them. I also find it irritating when people try to start a relationship without expressing their motives, like pretending they just want to be friends when they want something more and then proceeding in certain ways like we are more than friends, still without being clear verbally. The beta quadra, if I read correctly (at socionics.us), values "earthiness," which to me translates to frankness, candidness, honesty. I love this about an ENFj who I have spent a significant amount of time with. My experience with ESTp is more limited, esp. ESTp men, but I would guess that they, like INFp would want a certain amount of openness about others' feelings and motives. Anyway, I think your understanding is awesome A2. I appreciate this. -- learning |
| A10 This is for Marilyn and all the other NFs or NTs. I too, am an infp married to another infp for almost 29 years. I am also an MBTI Consultant and teacher. The ESTP is definately not emotionally deep enough for the INFP. I would strongly advise against this match. The INFP needs a soulmate- which means another intuitive. The ESTP is either looking for a playmate- to share in mutually appreciated sports for example- or a rock- the SJ- to temper their playfulness or impulsivity.The INFP-ESTP combination would be frustrating to both types over time. Each would be trying to change the other to no avail! -- Sue |
| A11 I am an INFP married to an ESTP (MBTI ESTP) and the constant wanting of "partying friends" (he talks on the phone more than I do), can wear on me. He is an extremely social creature and when I want to theorize or speak abstractly - he tends to state, "...so what is your point?" He doesn't operate with his intuition very strongly, whereas I have very high internal and external intuition. The connection is absolutely grand on his end when "I am happy" (or appear to be happy). He definitely needs a "playmate" as Sue above stated. I am longing for a soulmate. - -- Anonymous |
| A12 I'm an INFP who's dated seriously 2 ESTPs. Did not spend as long with the second one, had learned from the first. Didn't know about type back then but that Je no se quois <sp?? I was missing was NF and definitely N. There is no perfect type for an INFP but I'm sorry to say.. ESTP will be too superficial for you once you get to know each other. You may think there's more there in the beginning and you will find that that was all there is. there's no more layers to him. What you see is what you get. You will eventually be bored. They are fun people and you will probably have a superficial rapport. ESTP are very attracted to INFP. they are usually very happy with the match. You won't be. Personally, I've concluded I can't be with an S. It has to be N. Alas I usually don't have much rapport with other INFs. We repel each other. Just too much alike for me. I like ENFP and ENTP and even found an ENTJ I can tolerate but it has it's own problems. No offense to anyone this is all from an INFP for others those types may be fine.. IMHO -- Anonymous |
| A13 as and infp i loved my estp guy to death but it was a very painful relationship full of misunderstanding and mistrust. it ended terribly. i now know i need to be with someone more feeling. -- Anonymous |
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