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| Question #1120156891 | Thursday, 30-Jun-2005 |
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| Why, specifically, are INFJs and ESTJs attracted to each other? Also, how can an INFJ get an ESTJ to notice her and get past the "ordinary and simple" characterization? Any quick ways to spot an ESTJ? -- Maria |
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| A1 I am new at socionics but I have my own oppinion on that particular duality. As INFj I am, technically ESTj should be appealed the INFj's cold looking emotional intelligence and should become dependent on their creative intuition (Fi suggestive, Ne activating). So it's maybe about detached avoidant intelligent attitude. But still, duals normally don't notice on the beginning and Fi isn't the most obvious tool to reach someone's attention. So I think ESTj most probably would take the initiative on it's own right after missing the INFj. And actually, I have my doubts about INFj to be more stable on a relationship dealing with a dual partner. As an INFj I tend to be shy, very insecure and paranoid jealous, and found myself happier on a full-understanding Identical relationship than trying the full-supporting Dual whose essence itself seems to be avoiding rules and strong limitating bonds of any kind. Sort of adventurous to say but ESTj don't seem to like marriage when INFj love the idea of an stable ideal narcissistic couple. When I think make great forever best friends I wouldn't risk myself to marry one. Also if you still like the idea. ESTj's are weak at reading possibilities of situations. So they feel encouraged when somebody else makes up plans for him/her. ESTj are unintuitive and don't come up easily with creative plans for themselves. Also in theory they like someone's ability to understand human's processes. All this comes from reading Fi suggestive, Ne activation on ESTj's model-a. Which are INFj's ego functions. So since duals are duals, they like each other just as they are. -- Koneko |
A2 At first, it starts off like any other relationship (and Socionics experts have said that before). The dynamics come into play after repeated interaction or exposure to the presence of each other. You won't know how ESTjs can be such "suckers" for polite manners, gentleness and non-obtrusiveness until an INFj is standing right in front of them displaying those qualities. And then, you don't have to do anything. The ESTj will go after you if he likes you enough, that is. You will know it. It is said that ESTjs are generally honest people and thus have good reputations but that does not mean that they are not capable of cheating in a relationship. They are humans too. And anyone in search of duals should not fall into the trap of putting them on a pedestal because if you get disappointed, your preconceived notions will only serve to intensify the affect. Fi is the suggestive function of ESTjs so they are easily influenced in this area. If they are not vigilant enough, they can get entangled in affairs of the heart because they are vulnerable to a human symbol of loving kindness and moral purity. It is like an ethereal fascination. Before I get jumped on over-generalizing INFjs, I should mention that I don't mean all INFjs are saints. It is just that if you consistently behave like one, that is how others will come to regard you. ESTj men can appear dry and strict on the outside yet they are sentimental underneath. Pardon if this sounds biased or off-the-track but I believe there is something you can glean from here. I do not dislike ESTjs despite the condescending tone in this message but having known them up close, let's just cut the niceties out for once and get down to it. I am also aware of the crass generalization I made about ESTjs in here but that's for the sake of efficiency.   -- Anonymous |
| A3 I'm an INFj and I had a wrong idea of ESTj's for a long time that was when I was familiar with MBTI...I had read their description and they seemed similar to ESTp's with whom I have bad relationships. But when I got to know socionics, I read also about duality, and then I realised ESTj's are very unique and just what I admire, and it also coincided with starting to like a person who is ESTj, since then I deffinitely know I am attracted to ESTj's, they are truly amazing, yet I do not know how to attract their attention. And being somewhat avoidant doesn't help either. From my experience ESTj's (I know quite a lot of them) are attracted to ...I'd say extrovert types, but then again, that might be just because there are so few INFj's their duals so that they probably haven't experienced in their early life dual encounters, which is sad for the INFj's because they need the attention from ESTj's. A vicious circle. I might have not explained too clearly. And another thing between ESTj's and INFj's is that when an INFj is the female, and ESTj is the male, things might work out better, because males are traditionally supposed to make the first step, but if the types are vice versa, then the ESTj female might as well search for another ESTj because she is not so eager to show the attention to an INFj, due to the stereotypes that men are supposed to be stronger, etc. Pardon my English skills. -- INFj female |
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| A4 ESTj's are well-dressed, moderate though, reserved, firm, mostly not overweight, know what they like, what they do, they are smart and has a lot of knowledge about almost everything. They are working a lot, and very interested in things they do. How to gain one's attention? Start with an eye contact. Not an intrusive one, just so that the ESTj knows you are out there. Greet him/her but do not disturb them when they are doing work, they like to do their things, but note that deep down they also pay attention to relationships too, but not in a daydreaming way. They do appreciate good relationships, so don't make any drama with an ESTj. Generally ESTj's should appreciate INFj's if the ESTj gets to know one, they should be naturally attracted to one another, but it is often only after they get to know each other through work, while being classmates etc. INFj wouldn't meet an ESTj on the street, because while walking outside or wherever ESTj's think about what they have to achieve or about their personal life, but they are not looking into eyes of any by-passer in order to gain a new acquaintance, they like stabile relationships that last. So the bottomline for the shy INFj who has spotten an ESTj but doesn't know how to gain his or her attention: start small, don't give up, don't intrude, but use your intuition and common sense to think about the ESTj what you have in common, then see if the ESTj notices you, he or she should by now, just live your life, don't try anything too hard, if the ESTj is really an ESTj he or she should like after getting to know you for what you are. have respect for yourself and for the ESTj. PS: this is my personal view on this topic. It seems right to me and it should be for the most part, but then again, socionics is very complicated and I hope I send a clear message. -- INFj |
| A5 The attraction of duality comes from the fact that one's dual makes up for one's own weaknesses or blind spots in an appealing way. The intellectual functions of the one are the vital functions of the other. The strength of one's dual is the function with which assistance is most required. That and despite being very different duals supposedly instinctively understand each other. -- Anonymous |
A6 Being an ESTJ (meaning, I have no problem offering an opinion)maybe I can at least explain what we see in our INFJ duals. Even though we don't intuitivly understand people, we are people watchers and enjoy psychology, which is one area of connection we share with INFJs. Otherwise, here are the reasons I appreciate my dual...which may answer your question about how to get one to notice you. We appreciate strong values and convictions. We appreciate people that say what they mean and mean what they say, can make a commitment and keep it, and want to make the right decision in life. We are on a quest to figure life out and apreciate any new insights. We are melancholy by nature and and appreciate aesthetics in a way most INFJs can relate to. We are completely mystified and amazed by an NF's ability to understand people because we are simply dense when it comes to that. We are perfectionists and need to be surrounded by those who can either relate to or possibly sympathize with this frustrating character trait. In other words, ESTJ's who are wise enough to get to know an INFJ are continually amazed by these people...not that they are perfect by any means. Advice: be yourself. Look for an opportunity to chat one on one for a few minutes. And also, if you are an INFJ female, be careful of the ESTJ males out there. They can be discouraged cynics who can't communicate without using sarcasm. If you don't mind that character trait, you'll do well. Otherwise, look for a more emotionally mature ESTJ. And for the record, we are naturally very committed people, so those that you encounter who have committment issues probably had rough families or families and are afraid of reliving or repeating the past.   -- Anonymous |
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