Socionics Personals | | Female Straight 16-25 Oceania Libra ENFj |
| | Male Straight 16-25 Middle East Sagittarius INTj |
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On Being INTj
by I/O
Most times, I
can figure out what's happening or has happened; and if need be, I usually have
or will come up with a way to deal with it. I spend a lot of time inside my head
analyzing information, or formulating strategies to achieve something; I try to
perfect plans, concepts or understanding, or to prove or disprove ... various
courses of action. I seem to have a natural ability to turn my understanding
of a situation into an executable plan, but I need time and space to fully
understand what I'm up against. I'm not at my best on the spur-of-the-moment
or under close scrutiny, which may be reasons why I avoid competition or
conflict. I also never want to be judged as incompetent or not contributing,
so I can be rather uptight in social situations where this is a very real
possibility.
I'm not one to
ask for help; I need independence and space above all else, and distance seems
to be the best way for me to remain objective. I can isolate my mind even in
the company of others - go blank as many might perceive it. When I'm thinking,
I'm often oblivious to things happening around me; thus, I can miss key
information, and appear unenthusiastic or uninterested. In this detached
state, I'm very impassive and focused on a triggered memory or thought,
sometimes forgetting about activities, people or things to which I should be
paying close attention. Because I need to define my own approach, I treat the
opinions of others tentatively, which can perturb many individuals. However, I
also treat my own knowledge and abilities somewhat sceptically. Although I'm
largely indifferent to what others say about my ideas or me, I can be extremely
hard on myself when I realize that I've done something stupid or inconsiderate.
The most
recent information is more relevant to me than my experience or what I know
from the past; I easily integrate new information or start from zero. I give
others a chance to lead, say or do as they please unless they prove themselves
incompetent. I do admire diversity and uniqueness, but not as much as quality,
efficiency and accomplishment. I take personal responsibility for executing
plans. I'm very tolerant and flexible in most situations, unless someone is
deviating from an agreed-to plan, in which case I become intransigent and
abrupt. I defend plans by showing the stupidity of inaction or alternate
courses of action; I can be ruthless with anyone or anything that's confounding
progress.
To undertake something,
I must first be convinced that it's necessary and that I can actually do it. I
like doing activities that have multiple purpose; for example, I bicycle to
work because I want to be healthy but don't want to waste time exercising or in
traffic. I'm reluctant to start something when I don't have enough energy,
information or know-how. However, once started, I'm timely and self-assured
because I put enormous amounts of planning effort into minimizing the risk of
failure. I rarely jump to conclusions although I can be dismissive at first.
I'm a good strategist because I usually have a practical vision of the way
ahead and I tend to plan for every conceivable contingency, sometimes to the
point of obsessiveness. However, I do see the reality of situations, and my
need for actual output forces me to stop planning and start implementation.
When underway, I'm able to quickly change my plans ad hoc if I see things
aren't working well.
My psyche is
led by rationalization in absolute terms, which means that I like to produce
quantifiable output: make go or no-go decisions, express yes or no judgements,
and make everything definable or specifiable. I don't do well in grey areas,
with insufficient data or where expectations are unrealistic, which can make me
rather anxious. I like directing the destiny of realizable projects without
having to supervise or control people - allowing them independence to deal with
the detail. If they're incompetent, I'd prefer to discount them and do it
myself rather than confront them.
I think
decisions should be based on real factors, not on subjectivity or feelings. I
can easily express my insights, but not my feelings to which I'm oblivious most
of the time. Although I've provided for the well-being of others, I'm rarely
in-tune with their feelings or able to exude emotional warmth or empathy.
Although diplomatic, I'm not naturally demonstrative about my regard and
affection for others. I usually feel uncomfortable when I receive praise or
attention. I prefer a low profile at the periphery where the risk of detection
is minimized. I'm not a shy person nor a coward and I certainly don't lack any
confidence, but I won't go out of my way to meet or reach out to people, or to
initiate something unless I think that it's absolutely necessary.
My
rationalization is fed by relative input; I easily sense the 'big picture' -
aura, process, structure, relationship and consequence. I'm so aware of
consequence that I tend to be pessimistic looking first at what is or could go
wrong. I see everything in terms of how it can or cannot be orchestrated or
connected, or integrated into a pattern. I cut out all that I think may be
irrelevant to the issue or that may cloud the composite picture, so I sometimes
overlook even obvious detail. For this reason, many may think that I have a
bad memory when in reality, I have selective input. Hence, any planning that I
do is focused at a systems level because I'm not well equipped for minutia - I
prefer to orchestrate leaving the details of implementation to competent
others. But, because I'm such a perfectionist who expects quality, especially
from myself, I will attend to much detail in order to perfect my work.
In everyday
matters, I'm a minimalist who does not like clutter or possessing things that I
don't really need; most things I undertake must have purpose and be done
efficiently, and most things I own must be well made. I'm intensely interested
in achieving a result, and will put forth tremendous amounts of time and energy
into perfecting a resolve. However, when under stress, I need idle and away
time or diversions; it's how I defragment and improve clarity. For myself, I
do not place much value on traditional goals such as money and power but I do
need a stimulating environment and an occasional kick in the ass to get me
moving because, deep down, I want to be productive and relevant.
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C1 No offense but I wonder how much of this is specific to INTj or just an introverted dude who sets himself standards. -- Anonymous |
C2 As an INTj female, I read this artical and... I concur. -- Anonymous |
C3 C1, I most certainly share qualities with other types. Most people have standards; mine are somewhat relative and linked to the achievement of what I set out to do or obtain -- I/O |
C4 Kind of sounds like and not . -- Anonymous |
C5 C4, I have known many INTp and we do have similar areas of interest. However, they seem to have far more difficulty completing tasks while I have more hesitation in starting. They're more adept at narrowing down on a subject (sometimes beating it to death) while I have much wider focus (sometimes too wide). They have a more academic bent - I learn more for the sake of producing while they seem to learn more for the sake of learning. INTp also seem to prefer thinking out loud and engaging others while I like to take things away. I also seem to be a little more diplomatic. I'm a closet rebel while they make no bones about it. INTp deliberately wear blinders for argument sake then take things too personally, which I find irritating -- I/O |
C6 This is good, and insightful, and will help explain my feelings, since I'm an INTj and don't do that well! -- Anonymous |
C7 I am INTJ and the personality type that i always define it for myself and want to have is ENTJ. thats amazing just my ideal personality is extrovert. -- Anonymous |
C8 I/O You have a problem, and I'm here to fix your problem. I had this exact same problem. You're not an INTJ. You're a Normalized ENTJ. An ENTJ with a heavy emphasis. Your articles all read like an N-ENTJ exposition. This one especially reeks of . INTJs don't think like this, INTJs are losers and they never tell you how to think, they just piss and moan about how things should be.When things are illogical (anti Ti) and they aren't perfect according to that logic (Ne) they devolve into moral high ground (Fi) and screaming (Se). ENTJ attempt to do something (Te) and make sure its useful and predictable (Ni) and when that doesn't work out they attempt to understand the difficulty with people involved (Fe) and calm down (Si). So INTJ go feral, ENTJ settle down. Which brings me to my next point. All of your reactions portray a gamma quality understanding. Alphas are like children who don't want parents help, gammas are like adults who want everyone involved. Introverts understand what they know, its internal, extroverts need to speak/write what they're thinking. If this were true for you, you wouldn't need to make an article post, you would simply understand it. Most of my socionic forum posts are 1 time shots with maybe a return to see if people agree. A lot of your vocabulary and attitude also make you sound like an ENTJ. Ask yourself this. When you read an ENTJ description, did you kind of wish you were one? Did the INTJ description make you feel like you were justified in being introverted. All common problems for N-ENTJ. N-ENTJ can easily mimic all NTs by overclocking the different functions by focusing on them. Not only that, but the length of your posts. They are well developed and covered from multiple angles. INTJ don't do this, they're too busy being aloof. In addition all of your posts are USEFUL. they don't just explain the structure of something they are directly applicable to the real world and business modeling. Read Wikisocion.org for subtypes. If you should rediscover yourself you're welcome. If you're an INTJ, I already know how you'll react. -- Ti-LIE |
C9 C8, I'm most certainly not ENTJ/j. Thank you for your perspective. -- I/O |
C10 Well C9 definitely convinces me, clean cut INTj response, which makes me curious as to your subtype. Do check Wikisocion.org for your subtype. The problem is much more complicated than you may think. Many ENTJs will test as INTJ for some peculiar reason. Primarily that Te is the most dynamic element, and ENTj are "The most dynamic psycho-type." This causes ENTJ to have the ability to overclock any of the ego/id functions to the point that we can enter the state of mind of our cohort NTs. I tested as an INTJ, then an INTp, then an ENTp and finally an ENTj. That first one is not a typo it was MBTI. The p switch was easy enough because INTp are in ENTj quadra. The biggest shock came when I found out I was Extraverted. This was bewildering. I never once in my life remember acting like the cool kids with lots of friends. Wherein lies the truth. Ti-ENTj mimic INTj: they're introverted, somewhat reserved, and their behaviour can easily be misinterpreted. Especially since "INTp sometimes seem like extroverted introverts" while ENTp are "Shy extroverts." This causes a lot of confusion which is compounded by the fact that ENTj are villainized. We're expected to be evil overlords who ruthlessly crush people like ESTp, anal INTj, unmoving ESTj, controlling ENFj. When in reality we are the Victim erotic attitude. Though our hidden agenda says we "Want to be wealthy" in reality it's our mobilizing function. This means that to get an ENTj's attention, YELL AT THEM!! Upon reflection I recognized that all of my bullies had two things in common: They hated that I was quiet one time and overly talkative another, and they all used physical force to prove their point. When a Ti-ENTj is engaged physically or willfully (Se) they pay attention. However, if no instruction is given and instead we are bombarded with name calling and cursing we just stand there, confused, and waiting for orders, maybe squint or raise and eyebrow. Dominant subtype Te are prone to physical violence, Creative subtype Ne are more social and "Average", harmonizing Ni are generally respected enough not to be bullied, leaving Ti, the INTx look a likes, to suffer the fate of an extrovert Se/Fe attempting to endow their energy upon an unreceptive extrovert. This confusion makes us introspective and wonder why it is we're having problems, engaging our Ti function for understanding, Ne to come up with solutions, and Ni to make predictions. We begin daydreaming about solutions since we are unable to implement and answers we should have given but know are incorrect because our subconscious Fi wouldn't allow said outbursts. Thus we seem to mimic INTp/ENTp from our constant thinking process, whilst our behaviour reflects INTj. This begins to pollute our testing process. I say WE because this only applies to types who have had difficulty with this. Unless you have faced this issue you wouldn't understand what the problem is. This also explains why so many INTj/INTp/ENTp sites have seemingly uncharacteristic respective feels. I read some INTj/INTJ sites and wonder if a N-ENTj didn't write it mistaking themselves. To prove this, consider that there is not an extensive ENTj description anywhere on Western web, including here at Socionics.com. Where is the in depth ENTj description? Where is the ENTj domain on Wikisocion. ENTj are exactly the same as all NT. Weird, asocial, borderline anti-social, awkward, odd etc. Extroverted doesn't mean outstanding, or outgoing, those are attributed to Se and Fe. Extroverted in Socionics simply means how much energy they have and where they are directing it. ENTj need to exert energy (E) and produce (j), but it's guided by a cold rational NT mind. When I read your C5 response I saw: hesitation starting a task (typical of ENTj who win a battle before it begins), producing (j, more powerful when combined with E, I just wants things to make sense), wider focus(IJs generally don't have this as much as EJs), [non]academic bent (Typical Ti is to love the academic and the structurally logical, while producing is a Te function), diplomatic is Te. INTj are diplomatic in work (maybe), but in personal space they are banshees. Closet rebel ties in with a common ENTj stereotype: "The maverick politician or activist who defends positions politically unpalatable to the conventional wisdom of the time, either rising to power when his positions are later seen as correct, or remaining a niche politician with a limited number of followers. " straight from Wikisocion. Perhaps you are a Te-INTj and therefore mimic ENTjs. This would make sense since Dominant (Te based) are "Subtype complimentary" to Normalizing (Ti based), which is what I am. Nope I just read the INTj description and you're probably one of those, but I think I'll allow my comment to remain undeleted for the sake of ENTj thought process. BTW Socionics admins, can you get that ENTj in depth description already. -- Ti-LIE |
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