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J/P = problem
by Sergei Ganin
Firstly, let's be clear about the very definition of J and P. As you already know J stands for Judgement, P stands for Perception. Jung in his works on psychological types has clearly described types, which dominant function was Thinking or Feeling as Judging or Rational types and the types, which dominant function ... was Sensing or Intuition as Perceiving or Irrational types. This is exactly how J and P types are defined in Socionics.
MBTI® theory on the other hand has slightly different definition of J and P. Judgement or Perception in MBTI theory is something else and is nothing to do with Jung definition. J or P in MBTI theory show which function of the two main functions (dominant and auxiliary) is extraverted. For example MBTI INTP is Judging type. Although it has got P at the end, it has introverted Thinking (Ti) as a dominant function, therefore it is Judging type according to Jung. At the same time MBTI INTP has auxiliary function, which is Intuition and which is extraverted (Ne), therefore according to MBTI theory it is also Perceiving type, since Intuition is a Perceiving function. Hence the letter P at the end of the acronym.
MBTI ENTP on the other hand has got extraverted Intuition as a dominant function, so it also has P at the end, but not because it has a Perceiving dominant function, but because the Perceiving dominant function is happened to be extraverted. It is just a coincidence that according to Jung, MBTI ENTP is also Perceiving type. In fact, all MBTI extrovert types have the last letter coinciding with Jung definition, and all MBTI introvert types have not. This has nothing to do with Socionics. In Socionics the letter at the end shows the Jungian definition of J/P.
Why would anyone want to complicate already complex definition such as J/P? Look at this: "INTP is Perceiving type but it is Judging type". It would have been ok if at least the same J/P flip was true for the extravert types as well, but it is not. So this makes a very big mess out of J/P. Socionics on the other hand has a consistency about J/P. So don't think it is Socionics that brings chaos into the type theory, it was there all the way.
Secondly, there are only 4 functions - S, N, T and F. Neither E and I nor J and P are functions. E/I shows whether the dominant function is introverted or extraverted. This one is at least consistent with MBTI theory, Jung and Socionics. In order to identify E/I you need to identify the preferred direction in which the dominant function works. This is not how MBTI test or Socionics Type Assistant or Keirsey or similar tests work. None of them test the dominant function directly, only indirectly. Indirect testing is fallible, and no surprise here that many people struggle to define whether they are E or I. You have to remember that the main objective is to identify whether the dominant function is introverted or extraverted and not whether the person is Introvert or Extravert. The Extraversion/Introversion is the result of the "vertness" of the dominant function and not the other way round.
The same thing happens with J/P. J and P are not functions. In fact J/P is pure artificially manufactured scale. You do not really need it. It was manufactured to presumably identify whether the Jungian dominant function is Judging or Perceiving. But the actual scale apparently tests something else as well as what it is designed to test. This is the cause for so called " Introverted Complexity No.47". One "Introverted Intuitive with Thinking" takes MBTI and comes out an INTP, another "Introverted Intuitive with Thinking" comes out an INTJ. This introverted complexity is not limited to these two types. All other introvert types too are affected by it. But what interesting is that extrovert types are affected by it as well, but not as badly as introvert types.
So the problem remains: If you took the MBTI test or any other similar instruments and came out INTP for example, what is your dominant function?
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Your Comments: 1+ |
| C1 This article clarifies, but I think you missed the (admittedly coincidental) value of MBTI theory's P/J designation: right and left brain. Introverted Judgment and Extraverted Perception are both activated in sections of the right brain, whereas Extraverted Judgment and Introverted Perception are both activated in sections of the left brain. MBTI's P/J nicely slices the groups in half: if you're an MBTI P, then you are predominantly right-brained. If you're an MBTI J, then you are predominantly left-brained. -- Doogle - ENTp |
| C2 Interesting comment, C1. I'm curious as to whether we will ever be able to construct a test capable of determining both function direction AND strength. -- Anonymous |
| C3 Others say that introverted perceiving functions and "T" are activated in the left brain while extraverted perceiving functions and "F" are activated in the right brain. So personalities with an extraverted perceiving function and "T" or with an introverted perceiving function and "F" have to use both parts of the brain more equally. This process is slower than if both perceiving and judging are in the same part of the brain. As the right brain controls the left part of the body it is also said it is why the best tennis-players have to be the left-handed ESFps! -- piccolo_michel |
| C4 No matter how many times I take MBTI and Socionics tests, I keep getting INTJ on both! What gives!? -- Anonymous |
| C5 Lenore thompson locates Ne, Se, Fi, and Ti to the right brain hemisphere, and Te, Fe, Ni, and Si to the left. Our J or P preference is incidental to hemisphere bias and functional blindness of the function inverse of our dominant. The corpus callosum does not communicate diagonally between hemispheres, so our dominant function is left unaware of it's opposite, which results in us having an "inferior" function -- Jared |
| C6 I find that you seem to want to go back to Jung's definition as law, the MTBI and Socionics are evolved theories, expanded based on Jung's analysis and new information; while Jung is the forefather it does not mean that his original theory is thus immutable. And to further simply the J/P thoery in MTBI the formula for figuring out J vs P is easy Fe,Te,Si,and Ni, produce a J trait, while Ti, Fi, Ne, and Se produce a P trait. Now if you consider J as output and P as the desire for input you can see how Fe, Te easily would rather barf out output, and how Ti, and Fi want input. It is easy to see how Se, and Ne would want input as well, and why SI, and Ni desire to output information. Intelligence is the ability to adapt to new information, so Adapt please.. -- Insane Kender Extremely, Neurotic, Freaking, Person.(a.k.a ENFP) |
| C7 To-day I tested questionnaires, MBTT ones and Socionics ones.If you are organized, like closure, are planned and structured, etc. AND you are an extravert, you get a "J/j" in both systems, i.e. you are a "DOMINANT JUDGER". (Dominant extraverted judging function) This is CORRECT. If you are organized, like closure, are planned and structured, etc. AND you are an introvert, you get a "j" in Socionics, i.e. you are a "DOMINANT JUDGER". (Dominant INTROVERTED judging function). This is CORRECT. NOW, if you are organized, like closure, are planned and strucured, etc. AND you are an introvert, you get a "J" in the MBTT questionnaires, i.e. you are a "DOMINANT PERCEIVER" (Dominant introverted perceiving function) as well for "IN" types as for "IS" types! WHERE IS THE ERROR? Is the cognitive elements sequence inverted for "IN" types too? OR give MBTT questionnaires the WRONG type? -- Piccolo_Michel |
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