not make a very promising combination. Join any INTj discussion forum or mailing list and you can see this Quasi-identical tension for yourself. This is because there are many INTps among those INTjs.
Why do INTps test as INTjs? Because it is possible that some INTps actually do behave in such way that they could be mistaken for Judging types. The common perception of Perceiving types is as disorganised, unreliable and wavering. There are INTps out there that are, on the contrary, organised, reliable and unwavering or at least they may behave as such. As a result they often score as Js. But let's not forget that type is not about how you behave, it is about how your psyche is structured, which in return influences your behaviour in one way or another. Taking more tests or reading more type descriptions may not give an answer to the INTj/INTp question for the reasons explained above. The right way to distinguish between these two types is by making a comparison on a "molecular" level.
Let's take a look at INTj's main function - introverted thinking (
). That's right and this is not a mistake, in Socionics the functions are ordered differently for introvert types. So, INTjs are mainly interested in accumulating an understanding. They want to know why and what causes things happen the way they happen. They want to know and see the logic behind everything. If "it" does not contradict logic then "it" is right, otherwise "it" is wrong. INTps on the other hand seem to be logical too as their second strong function is extroverted thinking (
). However, if for INTjs it is about gaining understanding, for INTps it is about exercising their knowledge, and therefore they mostly concern themselves with known facts. Moreover, INTj's logic is their area of confidence and conservatism. This makes their logic fundamental, meaning once the rules are established, they can be applied anywhere. INTps logic is their area of creativity. This makes their logic circumstantial and unpredictable - the rules apply here but may not apply there.
The same goes for Intuition. INTp's main function is introverted intuition (
). Since introverted intuition is about internal wholeness or belief, this manifests itself in INTps being highly religious and spiritual people. It is also their area of confidence and conservatism and they will not welcome anything that could disturb that internal wholeness. And since you can believe in things that are not necessarily there or actually true, INTps criticise a lot. As for INTjs, their intuition is their second strong function, which is extroverted intuition (
). Extroverted intuition is about perspective and potential and because it is INTj's creative output, their "creations" could be very unexpected and original, often bearing a high potential for future development. So, combining two and two together, INTjs are in their element when involved with science, invention, innovation, discovery, theory, explanation, interpretation, philosophy etc. INTps are in their element when involved with business, enterprise, commerce, industry, trade, financial institutions, church etc.
Another comparison will be between Dual-seeking functions. INTps are looking out for extroverted sensing (
), INTjs are looking out for extroverted feeling (
). Since both functions are the subconscious functions, they are likely to influence the subconscious choices. INTps would want to go power driven, moneymaking, sometimes risky places, whereas INTjs would prefer a happy, cheerful and exciting surrounding.
The last comparison - "
Hidden agenda". This is what people hide from other people, because it is very sensitive area of one's psyche. If the main function is like a geometric cone firmly standing on its base, the hidden agenda is like the same cone standing on its tip that one is trying to balance. For INTjs their introverted sensing (
) is their nightmare. Introverted sensing is mainly about the body, its functions, sensory perceptions etc. The only way they can balance that cone is for them to be physically healthy and if this is not that important to you, you are most probably not INTj. INTps are also trying to balance this cone on its head when it comes to introverted feeling (
). Introverted feeling is love, affection, morality etc. It is important for an INTp to be involved with someone, to have an object of affection, to like people. If this doesn't concern you, you are probably a type other than INTp.
So if after all this you are still not sure whether you are INTj or INTp, maybe you are neither...
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| C16 I agree C15: I thought the article had a slight bias towards INTj, perhaps because the author himself is an INTj.(When he describes the secondary function, it is being described as a weakness for INTp, as for INTj it is described as his positive creative function). For this reason I would like to compare the differences in the way creativity is manifested between [Ti] and [Te]. I think that good example of ILI vs. ILE approach is Isacc Newton vs. Albert Einstein. Though Albert Einstein's initial motivation for the development of the relativity theory was his unhappiness about the logical inconsistency between the classical mechanics and the electromagnetics(a observation), for Newton the invention of calculus was very much based on the observation (and modeling) of patterns of how objects in nature behave in time(a perspective at the time of Newton probably had a more philosophical and bent). The development of calculus was exactly for this purpose, an approach which contrasts; incidentally with that of Leibniz, an independent discoverer of calculus and also a linguist, who may be an INTj. Interestingly, Leibniz's notation (+ Cauchy's epsilon delta) is what is in use today and offers an unending nightmare for students who inclines toward a more intuitive approach to understanding this subject. In any case, understanding of the world is quite global and far-reaching; and as such is not less innovative than , they are just expressed in a different way. Also, tends more towards multiple-interests in wide disciplines, an indication of the secondary function. The spiritual bent of together with was characteristic of Newton who fervantly persued such things as Alchemy and scripture interpretation. -- Anonymous |
| C17 I just love it when 2 most famous scientists with 2 most debatable types are brought up as an example, priceless! You might as well start talking about your neighbours with equal success. -- Dr. Zoidberg |
| C18 I tested as INTJ on both MBTI and Socionics, but since I have a very slight J over P preference, I'm not really convinced I'm not INTP. Could you help me clear this out? Does the fact that I feel urge to discover my true type reveal J trait? And what light does my life-long habit of having explanatory dialogs in my head, which are very precise as long as they're only internal, throw on this issue? -- Anonymous |
| C19 Hello. I think every type suffers from endless internal dialogues (though I suspect INTps and INTjs think that they are the only types for which this is coherent and "necessary" - it's probably neither). The really confusing thing is that Socionics and MBTI use the same terms. I understand why this is and I understand that it was necessary in order to give people a running-start to understanding Socionics, but I think it's reached a point - not just with the INTj/INTp confusion - for Socionics to take the leap and create new terms that are organic to this system. Using MBTI terms was very helpful and necessary, but it has crossed the line and instead of being a boost for this system, it is limiting its growth - especially because the two types that would enjoy spending millions of collective hours evolving this (INTj and INTp) are too stuck in figuring out their type. Actually, what they are stuck in, is an unacknowledged preference for one type and the inability to detect this; and this is very understandable. INTjs who have been nourished on MBTI-based profiles that talk about "decisiveness" and "pragmatism" and "clarity of inner monologue" will naturally build up a quiet disdain for MBTI-based INTp profiles that talk about "follow-through issues" or "underachieving dillatantes." On the other hand, INTp's who are praised by MTBI-based profiles for their "quest for truth at all costs" and "friendly playfulness" will simply NOT want to be an INTj who is (from an MBTI-based INTp's perspective) as ruthless, machiavellian, and perhaps even ignorant. None of this is the fault of Socionics - we're just talking MBTI. But the thing is, after digesting a few (or more) of these profiles, people will come to this website with lots of psycho-baggage; even the 'objective' types. And this resistance will create an inner-conflict: INTps don't want to be INTjs, INTps don't want to be INTjs, and yet here, they almost always are. And even if THAT is accepted (which is hard to do), the notion that MBTI made such a glorious error with respect to introverts starts to erode confidence in the whole system. If that's wrong...then what else is screwed up? The only way to solve this is to create brand new terms that are specific to Socionics. Get rid of the acronyms and create something new. This system is a develop of MBTI, but it is crashing into MBTI's structual limits and until it breaks free it's always going to have to have footnotes that make this system look like an alternative, rather than evolution. (And as a bonus, you can get rid of the very concept of "introverted sensing", which is absurd to begin and never should have been invented!). -- Anonymous |
| C20 I disagree with the statement that an INTp and an INTj can't live together in harmony, for the simple fact that my brother is an INTj and I am an INTp and we get along very well. We have very different ways of viewing the world but because of this we learn from each other what we otherwise woudn't pick up. At times of course we quarrel, as every normal person does, but we are also quite close and can have very in-depth, intellectual conversations at regular intervals which I find much more satisfying than I would with most people. We are joined together in our great respect for knowledge ad intellect. -- Anonymous |
| C21 C20: It's my experience that self-aware people who transcend the mechanical conditioning of their personality - any personality - can get along with anyone else. You and your brother get along, probably, because of who you are; not because of (or in spite of) your personality types. And while I'm here: my neighbours are an INTj and INTp pairing. They are complete, total idiots in every respect. They consider themselves to be quite intelligent, but they are stark social retards who kind of live in this weird fortress that they have built around their house over the years. They have NOT helped each other emotionally integrate (the kind of look like hippos at this point and can't make eye contact with you). So there you go. Not sure what the point of this was. If you happen to be my neighbour, though, you need help now. -- Anonymous |
| C22 Hello. I'd like to thank the Anonymous who posted C19 for further clarification of INTj/p issue & ask if they could provide several clues, based on organic approach to type diagnosis, as to how an INT can determine their j or p preference. I think this could benefit the attempt to enhance our understanding of personality types. -- Anonymous |
C23 all of this is sooooooooo full of the forer effect... "as the functions are down to interpretation in both systems" "I'm a Socionics INTp yet I've often tested as INTj in Socionics tests and INTJ in MBTI tests" "the fact that you get along so well indicates you're more likely to be FeSi (ESFJ) than SeFi (ESFP). " yea thats right keep changing the letters till it applies to you  -- Anonymous |
C24 C23: yeah, and why not  -- Ezis |
| C25 This article was so helpful to me! I've been studying type for years and very in depth the past 8mos or so. The MB way with the J/P thing was really throwing it all off and I couldn't my finger on what hell was wrong. My sis told me about your site via the VI info and I'm hooked. It all makes so much more sense to me. I am borderline E/I and J/P and the two types I vacillated between were ENTp and INTj. Ti and Ne (with the Socionics descriptions) are the top two but I couldn't tell which one was the dominant...they are both so strong. VI wise, the INTj celeb women look the most like me and now this article totally confirmed INTj for me. It ALL fit for me! Thanks! -- Kelly Jo |
C26 Only got one hint to give here: read a lot of articles about INTP/INTJ if ya wanna know 4 sure. I did a test and I was 50% p and 50% J as well as 50% S and 50% N I then read the articles and quickly discovered either to be INTJ or INTP. I kept on going until I found a very detailed INTP article describing my type. I found out that around 80% of it perfectly fits me as a person. http://www.intp.org/intprofile.html convinced me that I am indeed an INTP. I hope it will help you as it helped me. -- Locked Spirrit
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| The description in question refers to Ti Ne type, which corresponds to socionics INTj. |
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