INTj or INTp?
by Sergei Ganin
INTjs and INTps can have very similar behaviour, interests and even appearance. However, when it comes to intertype relations there is a big difference between these two, because one's Dual is the other's Conflicting type. Also, two INTjs or two INTps can co-exist quite peacefully, whereas an INTj and an INTp do ...
|C1 Is it possible to be perfectly balanced between J and P? Or indeed, E and I, S and N, or F and T. -- Anonymous|
|C2 You can find a way of balancing between any of the preferences but you can never be "perfectly" balanced. The perfect balance would mean absolute absence of preference. A dead man would have a "perfect" balance though -- SG|
|C3 Well written, I thought I was alone in my obsession with physical fitness but seems my like-minded LII brethren feel the same way. -- Anonymous|
|C4 I'm definitely one or the other, but unfortunately, I still don't know for sure. I suspect I might be INTj but test as INTp in some regards due to certain neuroses. -- Anonymous|
|C5 Every test I have taken identified me as INTj but I can be INTp as well. Might the way a person is brought to behave verses the way the person wants to behave contradict and eventually confuse people. I suppose to the point that any outcome of scientific or religious completion is something that has little significance until the person just learns to accept themselves and the only option is to practice boosting their confidence in your abilities. -- Anonymous|
|C6 Everytime I tested I scored between INTJ and INTP but most often than not.. it yielded as INTJ because some tests create an odd # of questions. Nevertheless, I'd end up 51% INTJ and 49% INTP. Thus, still a balancing act. -- Anonymous|
|C7 There is a thing about INTj and INTp I still do not understand. Is it always that MBTI INTJ (NiTe) is Socionics INTP and vice versa? From the cumulative descriptions of the 16 types it seemed to me so. My sister is a MBTI INTP, yet at Socionics she scored as INTJ. This is perfectly OK, as it makes her TiNe in both cases. The problem is I am an ESFP and she as a Socionics INTj is supposed to be my conflict type, but in the 19 years of our common life we quarrelled maybe three times. We understand each other just perfectly. Another problem is that she definitely is not a J, she is disorganized, flexible, tolerant and messy. So I dont understand how someone with TiNe can be a J and a conflicting partner of ESFp. Could someone explain it to me? -- Ezis|
|C8 There's various reasons why there's the occasional discrepancy between MBTI and Socionics types. First off, the two systems define J and P differently. In MBTI, J means your strongest judging function (i.e. T/F) is extraverted, whilst P means your strongest perceiving function (i.e. N/S) is extraverted. In Socionics, it refers to whether your dominant (i.e. 1st) function is a judging or perceiving function. Secondly, while MBTI might describe Js as organised, structured etc. and Ps as disorganised, messy etc., in Socionics this doesn't necessarily apply, at least not in such a simplified fashion. Thirdly, the two systems have different definitions of what the functions actually do - Ni in MBTI doesn't necessarily correspond exactly with Ni in Socionics, as the functions are down to interpretation in both systems. Finally, since this comment is probably getting rather bloated by now, if you've got on really well with your sister over such a long time, I'd consider the possibility that she's actually a Socionics INTp rather than INTj. That would make her your dual partner rather than conflicting. Just remember that internet-based tests aren't all that reliable, so if an internet test yields a certain result, it doesn't necessarily mean it's accurate. As an example, I'm a Socionics INTp yet I've often tested as INTj in Socionics tests and INTJ in MBTI tests. Whew, hope that helps clear things up for you -- BLauritson (INTp)|
|C9 C8, thank you so much for your explanation! Since I have posted the comment I have been thinking about it a lot, got roughly to the same conclusion and got afraid that meanwhile, when I am not online, someone will write an answer advicing me strongly to read some basic typology text. But your answer is really nice and explains also the details I did not make out myself in the few hours, for example, I did not know that Socionics and MBTI Ni are not exactly the same. Yes, my sister is probably Socionics INTp, otherwise it would not be possible to agree so well. I will tell her. Now the article starts to make sense to me at last. Thank you! -- Ezis|
|C10 Ok, my take is this. Perhaps she is indeed TiNe, but the fact that you get along so well indicates you're more likely to be FeSi (ESFJ) than SeFi (ESFP). This would predict that her inner world is centered on logic, with intuition providing an external creative diversion. Also your own external world would tend to be centered more on relationships and feelings, with sensations and physical actions being the secondary and more private focus. J and P do not always determine how neat or messy you are, I've known messy people of both types. But in a socionics context, bear in mind that it's trying to describe your *true* preference, whereas in MBTI it's trying to show your *external* appearance. This is only the same for an extrovert! -- Luke|
|C11 @C9: Glad I could help -- BLauritson (INTp)|
|C12 C10, I think it is more probable that my sister is an INTp and I am an ESFp. If you want an example that supports this, here it is: in my childhood, I was quite wild, trying all kinds of toys and doing crazy things like climbing on the roof = Se. My sister was a dreamy and calm child, reading and thinking out stories all the time = Ni. But thank you for the remark anyway! By Socionics "true" preference and MBTI "external" appearance, what do you exactly mean? For example, that MBTI classifies INTps as INTJ because their extroverted deciding function Te is more visible than their dominant perceiving one? -- Ezis|
|C13 'for INTjs it is about gaining understanding, for INTps it is about exercising their knowledge' This is the opposite to what I'd read. I'd read that INTJs are keener on applied knowledge so would prefer the business world, while INTPs are more abstract and would be happier in academia - maybe teaching aside. Is this due to the MBTI/Socionics difference in understanding of INTJ and INTP? -- RubyENFP|
|C14 I think the best thing to do, although it may seem counter-intuitive at first (I know it did for me), is that, when dealing with Socionics, forget anything MBTI has taught you about the types. Likewise, if you're dealing with MBTI, forget anything Socionics has taught you. There are *some* common features that types from the two systems may have, but there's no guaranteed conversion between the two, purely because the underlying theories behind the two systems are different in many ways. Some differences are rather subtle (such as defining functions differently), other differences are easier to see when you understand the two systems well enough (such as the difference in whether a J or a P gets whacked on the end of your type acronym). Furthermore ("gee, doesn't this guy ever shut up?"), there's no specific authority on what is and what isn't, in both systems, as there are many people who have different interpretations of everything. That's not to say there's no general consensus of course, but since neither's an exact science... -- BLauritson (INTp)|
|C15 BLauritson: i would agree, personally i found that MBTI was the most restrictive...and the type descriptions it garnered were merely emotionally compulsive and does' little for those who would like to view there personality and work with it from that point.(so maybe it is grand co-incidence that i did as u advised). "for INTps it is about exercising their knowledge, and therefore they mostly concern themselves with known facts." ..this line is from the article...i can't agree with it. personally, i don't know why so much time and energy goes into the INTp vs INTj battle, why is the world so interesting for these people, personally i find that the world is too constricted, i find the ILI vs ILE world more interesting,...this group competes on the world science front to define and enter into the best areas, and be the most useful and innovative. this whole intJ disparity, is to do with people who can't see there growth phase, and don't know when applied disipline is a intP process rather than evidence of the J disposition. for let's face it....in socionics, the P and J disparity are the largest and most important.. duals ar'ent formed across it, and it just might be so, that in a very deep sense, a persons whole mentology developes out of it to give the seen Socionics framework -sirac,son of -- Anonymous|
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