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The real "Ethics" of Gamma SFs - Uncovered
by Astra

Gamma SFs, the Politicans (ESFP) and Conservators (ISFJ), are masters of exploiting interpersonal relations to ensure they get what *they* want at minimal personal cost. The game is self-assertion and obesiance, and what they want can change on a whim. Depending on their perceived "severity" of the issue, they can ...
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Your Comments: 1+ 24+
C1 Example celebrities who are Gamma SF: Elijah Wood, Michael J. Fox, Topher Grace, Brendan Fraser, Michael Buble, Michael Caine, Reese Witherspoon, Jennifer Love Hewitt, Judge Marilyn Milian, Whoopi Goldberg, Kevin Spacey, Sean Connery, Adolf Hitler, Leonardo DiCaprio, Gene Hackman, Walter Matthau, Mark Wahlberg, Brad Garrett, Melanie Griffith, Clark Gable, Ayatollah Khomeini, Richard Karn, Roseanne Barr. -- The Author, "Astra"
C2 Yes, the Se in this description is evident; however, it sounds like you've described ESTP and ISTJ here more than ESFP and ISFJ. -- the Artist
C3 Very good article! -- M
C4 Its because of the Se that one can find a ISFJ as the controller of a household, even though they are introverted in nature. I think it should also be noted that these Gamma SF's will be a wreck if they lose control (or perceived control) of their own lives for any reason. Luckily this usually has to be because of uncontrollable external sources, because they spend so much time trying to control everything. Unluckily this control always seems to be too much to me. Silly Alpha NT's. -- ENTPee
C5 "Danny Devito types" fit this. But he's been typed ISFP by theorists. People of his same type always seek materialistic advantage in daily life, and do everything else this article describes. -- Anonymous
C6 I never considered gamma SFs the people who go all out trying to "control" others. Honestly, if anyone, alpha SFs would be those people. Or why not delta NFs. Or anyone else who just aren't too good at coping with daily life. A slightly different perspective would have you arrive at this: The smart gamma SFs are getting good at "influencing" others to do what they truly and honestly believe to be for the best. This is strictly different from "manipulation", and this practice arrives at skills that can benefit (xxxx type) a lot. Please keep i mind that EVERYBODY on earth has a socionics type, and millions of these people are nasty to the core. Besides, what is even the point of this article? If it is to provide insight, then rewrite it. It's overflowing with disdain, possibly due to negative personal experiences of the author. Still there is that sound of "these are facts, do as you will with them". Is a streaming pot for alpha NTs? Yet they call me the critic. If the point is to be funny, well .. didn't amuse me too much. Then again, I rarely find guidelines on how to step on someones toes too funny. -- ILI
C7 OH YOU ARE SO RIGHT, I'm an iNtj myself and I can attest to how well isfj's and esfp flip ethics back and forth to fit their profit...i'll bet you the world this article is written by an intj also. -- Anonymous
C8 The thing to learn from this article and its corresponding comments is that alpha NTs can be as adamant, non-universal, narrow minded and have as much of an us vs them mentality as the gamma SFs they have described. This article reeks of personal alpha NT bias and animosity. -- Anonymous
C9 @C8, how do you know the author is Alpha NT? The author hasn't stated their type, merely compared the Alpha and Gamma NT clubs and SF. Perhaps it is you who's biased? Anyway, I do think that morals are better handled by T types in general. -- Doomdark
C10 Maybe the point of the article is to stir interest in the topic and invite discussion so that perceptions can be compared and validated accordingly. -- Anonymous
C11 I have seen the behavior described in this article, but it isn't ESFP nor ISFJ. ISFP/ESFJ? INFP/ENFJ? I'm not sure, but ISFP/ESFJ seems to fit the other type data best. -- Anonymous
C12 Dear C8, "Alpha NT bias" is an oxymoron. -- Anonymous
C13 Excluding parts that describe some Se traits this seems more like a general and emotional description of an interaction between thinking and feeling types from conflicting quadra. Much of the information here is non- specific to any one quadra. The author is uninformed of the rules, ethics and traits of each quadra and is only aware of a few traits of each information element and thus the ambiguity and confusion in this article. -- Anonymous
C14 @doomdark Se - The need for acquiring qualities of a powerful person physically and mentally, is the hidden agenda and spiritual goal to the INTj and the function that precipitates last, late into the maturation of the ENTp personality. Gamma-SFs threaten the 'NT'- need for competence in these functions of the alpha-NT ego block which are outridden by the gamma-SF's natural competence in the areas of Se which are craved for by alpha-NT types who have not yet acquired or developed sufficient control and maturity over these lower tertiary and inferior functions, they prefer to manifest their anguish via their Fi which is also a lesser function with low control at this stage through logically thought out rants like this article or covert social attack quite like those described by the author. Infact many of the tactics of the SFs the author has described in the article are those imagined and executed by extroverted alphas. Thus the conclusion that the article was written by an alpha-NT. Also C12 quite foolishly validated C8's opinion. -- Evilmore
C15 A crucially important aspect overlooked is that 1.Inherent genotypical human nature 2. Acquired phenotypical cultural traits 3. Psychological maturity, are the drivers underlying any socionics type and his/her motives and actions. It is beyond the purview of these type indicators to assess or comment upon basic human nature of a type scientifically as you have attempted to. Please dont pollute an accurate system which has been painstakingly created and developed with underinformed and personal articles such as these and undermine its credibility. -- Anonymous
C16 C14 - "Infact many of the tactics of the SFs the author has described in the article are those imagined and executed by extroverted alphas." I have seen an extroverted Alpha NT doing this, but I also have seen Gamma SF doing this as well PLENTY of times. The only difference is in the use of logistics, tactics, strategies, etc - how often they use them and how adept they are at these. Also the reasons why Gamma SF attack others, described in this article, are pretty accurate. An ISTj -- Anoymous
C17 ESFps appear to be the types that most resemble monkeys. A good ESFp can be kind, hearty, and considerate. A bad ESFp can be rude, aggressive, and overbearing, manipulative (and think nothing wrong of it) and I've had a few run ins with these. I see more bad ESFps with males in particular. From afar they can be fun upon closer inspection cruel as hell. Similarly, an ISFj can be just plain MEAN. -- Th - ENTp
C18 well if the ENTps intentions are bad, an ISFj is bound to detect it quickly with his Fi primary and be 'mean'.. and changing colour and saying you were an innocent well-meaning fool and it was all just for laughs, after you have done the nasty, malicious things you have done wont make things better for anyone. -- -estj
C19 Why are you getting angry at this stuff when there's nothing you can do to change it? What's bickering about this gonna do? There might be some truth to these observations, but I think you're all wasting your time starting "tribe wars". This is the reason I'm thankful that most people don't know about socionics. -intp -- Anonymous
C20 gandalf is esi -timewaster -- Anonymous
C21 What a biased article. -- echidna1000
C22 @c18 "an ISFj is bound to detect it quickly with his Fi primary" I have plenty of anecdotal evidence that if the ENTp does not want its intentions to be detected, they are not. This often comes at the cost of violating its own fragile moral principles. - Sincerely, an ENTp with an ISFj father. -- Anonymous
C23 My ISFj (ESI) wife fits this description to a T. Admittedly, she has had a rough life, and I (and EIE who naturally wants to see the best in people and who naively sees most people as "good," even when they're not) spent 24 years of my life trying to get this person to see how badly and how often she was hurting me. Her response (as predicted above): "People can take care of themselves." She was partially right. She is very good at taking care of herself, but she had no interest in taking care of me ... NEVER. Finally, I gave up. Beware! The author of this article is more insightful than most people want to believe. -- Anonymous
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